Templar to crusader - IMPLEMENTED

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Dgkfadomo777
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Crusade

Post by Dgkfadomo777 » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:35 pm

A crusader basically was a soldier who would fight for his beliefs and convert a lot of other people to join him. He would take four turns to make stronger than a swordsman weaker then a templar but can convert units

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Re: Crusade

Post by ARK » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:22 am

that might be a bit to similar to a priest or missonary however it can be a upgrade to a templare allowing him to heal more and gives him the ability of conversion.tho this is my opinion , the final decison is daniels

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Re: Crusade

Post by Dgkfadomo777 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:40 am

Well priest convert and heal but has weak attack missonaries heal less but are more mobile. Templars heal but dont convert there is no unit with a decent attack that can convert

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Re: Crusade

Post by ARK » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:20 am

in the end theres no need for a crusader unless a unit that takes 4 turns and can only heal itself(my opinion)

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Alexander82
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Templar to crusader - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:50 pm

What about an improvement for the templar to make it a bit better?
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Ness

Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Ness » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:29 am

Good idea but I dont like name.

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COOLguy
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:02 pm

Maybe a name:

Upgrade: Templar -> Master Templar (or Grand Master, but that was the leader of them all. Maybe for a hero unit.)

or...

Upgrade: Templar -> (knights) Hospitallar (the rival order that got most of the Templar land when the Roman Catholic church disbanded the Knights Templar)

I am fully in favor of a Templar upgrade! :)
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Dgkfadomo777 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:06 pm

Maybe we should start them as Templars and they upgrade to Templar veterans. However I don't see the point of upgrading and crusaders were inferior to templars. Templars were their special ops crusaders were common fighters

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Alexander82
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:08 pm

I didn't brought in hospitaler because i remember something about them being mounted, but it might be a good idea . The master Templar is a good option also
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:55 am

If they were mounted: Idk really. Was it that they both could be mounted? But I remember that when they moved to Malta they were anti-pirate, and so used ships. :)

I am leaning towards Hospitaller, because I think a lot of people will not realize that a Master Templar was a leader of an area. (That they will think 'Master' is just a dumb title without imagination.)
Dgkfadomo777 wrote:... and crusaders were inferior to templars. Templars were their special ops crusaders were common fighters
Yes.
Thanks!
Josh

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ollie444
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by ollie444 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:20 pm

What about crusader > templar? And improve templar/reduce turn cost to 4

Ness

Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Ness » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Crusader=soldier who taked part for Crusade

Templar=knight who belonged to templars

Templars=knight organisation in medieval time

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Alexander82
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:08 pm

Ok i knew that, it was just to find a name to upgrade that unit :D
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Dgkfadomo777 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:21 am

Good and we already have a crusader in Dev version on device editor

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The Pendulum
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:29 am

I really like the idea of upgrading the Templar; my already favorite unit; you know what else I love? Knights.

Why not have a "knights Templar"!

I'll even draw him up tomorrow!

I'm afraid I haven't tried drawing horses yet, so if anyone wants an upgrade to the Mounted Templar, you're gonna have to hold on for a bit. :P

P.s. I got this! You gotta let me have this one guys! :D

Also, this is my second ever attempt at pixelating, let alone anything artistic. Don't judge harshly. ;D
What do you y'all think of something like this?
I messed up on the helmet, and screwed up the transparency, so it'll have to be redrawn regardless, but this is my WIP--thanks to the original Templar's Author, whoever that may be.
Attachments
MY Knights Templar.png
Just a quick work-over from the original Templar; not an original design.
MY Knights Templar.png (1.17 KiB) Viewed 9028 times

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COOLguy
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:23 pm

Really good for a first! :)
I can see his head looks a bit "smashed", so that will need to be fixed as well.
Maybe you might be able to think of a way that the new image can be "drastically" different from the original. Something that is easily identifiable (like the upgrades Swordsman->Broad Swordsman, Knight->Heavy Knight, and others already in the game).
But it is pretty good as a first draft. :D
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:59 pm

Thanks. I see what you re saying about the smashed head; it really stands out now. As far as popping out as "it's own thing" like the knight to heavy knight, I honestly thought the addition of the Templars surcoat, great helm, and chain leggings Would have been sufficient to emphasise the upgrade. The only other thing I can think of is to either: replace his sword with another one handed weapon, like a flail, or Morningstar; or by adding a weapon to his hip belt which, frankly, I'm not confident would come out well given his kite shield.

I Could *try* to angle his shield away and down to show more of the belt, thereby exposing the hip sidearm, but I really don't think that would have the pop you're implying I need.
Thoughts?

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:02 pm

Hmmm. idk :)

Yes the changes in coloring and sword certainly help, but maybe if you changed up his shield a bit. I don't know: larger or slightly different shape?

That is kind of my idea.

Maybe "reverse" the image (so he's right handed)? Any other thoughts?
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:08 pm

COOLguy wrote:Hmmm. idk :)

Yes the changes in coloring and sword certainly help, but maybe if you changed up his shield a bit. I don't know: larger or slightly different shape?

That is kind of my idea.

Maybe "reverse" the image (so he's right handed)? Any other thoughts?
I can definitely work on the shield! I know Im about to sound like an unrelenting child here, but, I love the traditional white and red of the Templar surcoat; I also love kite shields and long swords. I will definitely keep at it, and keep posting revisions along the way until we get something absolutely awesome! I am so not giving up on this surcoated, great helm'ed Templar though! :D

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:01 pm

Revised the colors a bit, fixed the splotching, revised the kite shield, broadened the sword, gold tipped his boots, made the hilt gold, attempted to add a sheath on his back, and de-flattened his great helm. :D

If this guy isn't a noticeable improvement over the original Templar, I don't know what is! ;D
Attachments
MY Knights Templar 2.png
How does this one look?
MY Knights Templar 2.png (1.27 KiB) Viewed 9016 times

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:49 pm

I like him but the shield would look kool solid red in my opinion X)
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:22 pm

The Pendulum wrote: I will definitely keep at it, and keep posting revisions along the way until we get something absolutely awesome! I am so not giving up on this surcoated, great helm'ed Templar though!
Great! Keep doing that!

Yes this is definitely distinguishable. Three things I noticed:

1) There is no player coloring. :) Make sure that is on there somewhere or it could get "awkward" on the battlefield. :) (player coloring is described here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=592#p2843 )
2) His white clothes could use a little more shading: contrasting between slightly lighter and darker parts to show "depth"
3) His head is a little square-like. I can see that this is his helmet, but maybe it could be a little clearer. Maybe raising the height to 40 (which will "overlap" the tile above) and adding a feather, or maybe ornament to the sides... I'm not entirely sure what I mean. :)

But good job so far!
Thanks!
Josh

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The Pendulum
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:27 am

RiverRaider 1097 wrote:I like him but the shield would look kool solid red in my opinion X)
I will invert the colors on the shield, and see what everyone thinks, so itll be a red background shield with a white cross. I just dont want to do a solid colored shield because the Swordsmen and all the upgrades for him already have solid colored shield (except for MAA). Plus, Templars did have cross on their shields, so I wanted to bbe sure to in include that.
COOLguy wrote:
The Pendulum wrote: I will definitely keep at it, and keep posting revisions along the way until we get something absolutely awesome! I am so not giving up on this surcoated, great helm'ed Templar though!
Great! Keep doing that!

Yes this is definitely distinguishable. Three things I noticed:

1) There is no player coloring. :) Make sure that is on there somewhere or it could get "awkward" on the battlefield. :) (player coloring is described here: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=592#p2843 )
2) His white clothes could use a little more shading: contrasting between slightly lighter and darker parts to show "depth"
3) His head is a little square-like. I can see that this is his helmet, but maybe it could be a little clearer. Maybe raising the height to 40 (which will "overlap" the tile above) and adding a feather, or maybe ornament to the sides... I'm not entirely sure what I mean. :)

But good job so far!
In Progress:

Adding player pink to the belt and going to try the wrist cuffs; dont know how the wrists will turn out though. :(
Will also add subtle shading to the Templar; I have a few ideas as to how to implement that that will either make him look more radiant (making the crosses vibrant) and by shading the sides and making him look likes he's over casted.

As for the square head, I will try some tricks Im learning about shading borders to make it appear a little less blocky, will make a few versions of that as well right now.

Currently:

How do we feel about the sheath on his back, the width of his belt (which Im going to recolor for the player), his surcoat, sword, etc? The sword was on the very edge of the 32x32, so I tried making a degrading border instead of a flat black border (to make it appear as if we're observing the thinner part of that side of the blade). Does the sheath look distinguishable, or is it a guess as to what it is? Could he do for some gold tipped knee guards as well? Or are we good with the rest of his armor? :)

Thanks for all your feedback. Despite how challenging and frustrating this is, this has been an absolute blast creating something for others, even if it doesn't make it in the game!

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Darkknight » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:51 am

We have an image but what are the stats? I think it should have more attack but very little improvement in healing.

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Tue Jul 21, 2015 1:57 am

Darkknight wrote:We have an image but what are the stats? I think it should have more attack but very little improvement in healing.
I feel that the healing doesnt really need improving, as that's technically what the healer is for, but Im all for increasing its attack rating. Or at least increasing modifiers against some infantry (or all of them). ;D

*Actually*!... Is it possible to alter a unit's counter attack damage? As I understand it, units do half their attack rating for counters (if they arent killed outright), is it possible to increase this? I think that this would fit perfeclty for an upgraded Templar, given they were Holy warriors, their "use" was to root out Evil, of sorts, so it would make sense that they would be "Defenders of the Faith".

...Am I way off base? lol

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The Pendulum
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:17 am

Alright, I have the revisions here:

One more post since I can only add 3 attachments at a time.
Attachments
MY Knights Templar 2 White and Gold Shield.png
MY Knights Templar 2 White and Gold Shield.png (1.37 KiB) Viewed 8998 times
MY Knights Templar 2 Red and White Shield.png
MY Knights Templar 2 Red and White Shield.png (1.35 KiB) Viewed 8998 times
MY Knights Templar 2 Black and White Shield.png
MY Knights Templar 2 Black and White Shield.png (1.37 KiB) Viewed 8998 times

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The Pendulum
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by The Pendulum » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:17 am

The Pendulum wrote:Alright, I have the revisions here:

One more post since I can only add 3 attachments at a time.
Last post for the night about this: Im having a lot of trouble getting the whole gradual shading down. I either shade it too intensely (dark) or too subtly (too light) and it either doesnt have enough "original coloring" from dark shading, or not enough depth from light shading. Im just going to admit, the Great helm simply cannot be done to what everyone is either expecting, or is thinking it should look like. Not to sound rude or anything, but the helmet *is* pretty square (the real thing) by design, and with so few pixels to work with up there, there's no real room for proper gradual shading to give it a 2.5D look that Ive seen around. If anyone wants to try polishing it up, or maybe giving a few suggestions, Im all ears, but I cant figure it out, so I stuck with shading the coats and the shield as best I could. It seems that for the dark colors, maroon, red, black, etc, shading is much more difficult than for lighter colors. Again, Im open to suggestions, and Im really happy with what Ive done here, but of course, I need help with shading for that depth effect. Anyways, these are all the color variants I really love, particularly the Black shield & surcoat with white cross. The white cross on that shield looks like its beaming radiant holy light. xD

Also, about raising the height to 40, I have two thoughts about that: first) I havent tried that yet, so I'd prefer to keep that as a last resort method of fixing the issues but also, second) I don't really like the idea of an infantry unit being an overlapper because even most cavalry dont overlap (to my eye's knowledge), so he might end up looking like a giant, or some sort of hero or something, and I think that would ultimately detract far more than his square helm. :S Just my two cents anyways. Of course, if it must be done, Ill give it a shot. :)
Thanks, and sorry.

Regards,

P.S. I just thought of a way to "fix" the helmet issue and I'm 90% confident that the adjustment of 3 pixels will be exactly enough to not only make his helmet appear more rounded, but also to appear to give the rest of his body a more 3d look. Will deal with this later; it'll be a very minor adjustment--very subtle--but I *think* it'll be just what I need.
Attachments
MY Knights Templar 2 Red and White Shield Red coat.png
MY Knights Templar 2 Red and White Shield Red coat.png (1.28 KiB) Viewed 8994 times
MY Knights Templar 2 Black and White Shield with black coat.png
MY Knights Templar 2 Black and White Shield with black coat.png (1.25 KiB) Viewed 8994 times
MY Knights Templar 2 White and Red Shield.png
MY Knights Templar 2 White and Red Shield.png (1.38 KiB) Viewed 8998 times

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Alexander82
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:01 am

Why don't you make a simple dress with a red cross and a party colored shield with a white cross inside?
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COOLguy
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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by COOLguy » Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:05 pm

I think I like the third choice of each group of three, as far as coloring goes. Ok hopefully the fix will work! :)
Thanks!
Josh

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Re: Templar to crusader

Post by Wanderer » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:57 am

I like the ones with the white cross on the shield. I think it stands out much better especially with the red background. The surcoats all look good. If a red cross on white was traditional, then I'd use that.

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