Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (unit) - IMPLEMENTED

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Alexander82
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Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (unit) - IMPLEMENTED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:25 pm

Ashigaru was the medieval japanese infantry armed with rifles
They weren't strong but iwith their great numbers could change the course of a battle.
In my idea the ashigaru should be a ranged unit with low mobility and hp and pretty low cost (1 i guess) with a decent damage but a certain chance to miss and no counterattack
To produce ashigaru you need to research the tanegashima technology (their gun name)

What you think about it?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by enrich » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:39 am

its actually not a bad idea. Its kinda balanced. but this unit seem like it would either be usefull for last minute tc defences or wagon rushing an enemy. but with its tech cost would warrant better stats. if it had no cost,then if it had 50 % hit chance for a decent attack it would be ok. with the cost it should have a long range (8- guns are better than bows but still inaccurate at this point) and a cost of two ( guns are easier to learn to use).

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by patroid » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:19 pm

Hi
Daniel sayed iften clearly NO GUNS!
but the first ashigaru had have normal swords
(Samurei swords). They has been Lordless samurai
Fighting for money.

Patroid

So it should be maybe actual samurei with 2 turn cost
And one attack per turn...

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:44 pm

Yeah, I agree with Daniel and Alexander if we start putting guns into the mix it will take away from the whole POINT as in (arrow,sword,spear) of the game.
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:46 pm

I meant Daniel and Patroid lol)
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:30 am

I think it would be too similar to the 2 turns melee infantry that is already in game, maybe we might make the ashigaru like the current samurai and make the samurai a stronger unit, what you think?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by balint » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:50 pm

What about a method like in medieval 2 total war.
after a certain turns, gimpowder ubits become avaiable. (I think abozt 50-70 turns) and then you can recruit nusketeer?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:04 pm

I saw that muskeeters were considered before, anyway the last word is daniel's
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:11 am

where we are now i am not very strict on this topic, maybe we can put some little (clumsy / bad accuracy) gunpowder units, like on that level the Age of Kings had.

so lest see some in different threads (stats and also images) and if they are awesome i will put them in.

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 2:03 am

Great Daniel, I'll draw something, and I'll try to figure the right stats
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:56 am

I made this one
Do you like it?

Stats
cost 1
hp 12
Attack power 5
Range 6
Armor 1
Pierce Armor 1
Speed 2
Sight 7
Action/turn 1
Spell Resistance 0%
Size 1x1
Builders: Tc, Archery range, Castle
Chance to miss: 20% against ranged, siege and big units, 35% against infantry, 50% against Cavalry
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Ashigaru 32x40.png
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:37 pm

Thanks!:
Suggestion: for image i suggest using the current collection, and modifying one of them.

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:05 pm

I've already used part of other units as a base but i saw few oriental units
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:37 am

I've tried editing an existing unit, how is it?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:44 am

much better, maybe a little more shading
and also you can extend the unit upwards with few pixels if you are short of space.

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Alexander82
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 3:29 pm

this one?
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Alexander82
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:35 pm

Tech icon
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by patroid » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:31 pm

Hi
Pls make the tech symbol more recognizable.
The ashigaru looks like he break the gun!!
And make the hat more sharp!!
The rest is ok.

Patroid

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Alexander82
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:24 am

Here
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:10 pm

image is good but a little looks like he was barding/guitaring - i suggest moving the gun into a different position.

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:28 pm

mmm any idea about the new position?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:45 pm

Do you like this one?
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:34 pm

seems good to me
my other idea would have been: a rest position for the rifle, eg standing the gun vertically on the ground and holding with one grip on the barrel (like a staff a wizard would hold)

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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:19 am

Two variant positions, let me know if you prefer one of these and i'll work on the shading
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:33 am

i think i like more the previous, the shooting one.

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Alexander82
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:05 am

it's settled then
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by RiverRaider 1097 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:40 am

Guys "Please" don't this, There are several games in play store that use guns, this game is unique I'm telling ya if you do this its the beginning of the end of a great game and one day that's all you will have on the field is units with guns, bows and arrows will be gone ?.....I know several wants it, by reasons I just don't understand...but that's how I feel about it anyway (
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:45 am

The idea of this unit is that is less effective and cheaper than a bowman
I don't think it'll make bows disappear, just let you train units in a fast way, and in a single game you can't just develop all the units, you have to choose, and if you develop the ashigaru you will let out something else.
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by COOLguy » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:01 am

As I have stated before:

1) there were guns in medieval times
2) these were slow, clumsy, inaccurate, and, on a whole, less effective than bows
3) just continuing the above, guys, really we need to dispel this myth that guns were always best. Early guns were AWFUL. The only thing in their favor is what they will become (which we will not get in this game)

Since we won't leave this age in the game these guns will be so. I see them mostly having the effect of "shock and awe" minus real damage. Imo, we should focus on how to implement them in such a way.
Thanks!
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Re: New Technology abd Unit - Tanegashima (tech) Ashigaru (u

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:20 am

The real past damage for guns and crossbows was the ease to train new soldiers in short times, but a bow was way better
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