Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

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DreJaDe
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Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by DreJaDe » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:25 am

2 TC scenario
Goblin Slave is a 2 turn unit. And, he can make a building (factory) in just 4 turn. In just 4 turns (turn 3) he would be able to make 2 building paired with another TC occupied in turn 1.

In humans, that would just be one building completed plus 2 turn for another building. That is only if I focus on 3 turn buildings

If I focus on making a volcano, goblin slave would be able to make it in just 8 turns (Turn 7). Plus the 3 turn scout and 2 goblins still available.

In humans, even if you can get a 3rd TC in 2 turns (Turn 1) you would just be able to make a castle in 9 turns (turn 8), with a scout and ambixteria available.

My issue is that, humans are supposed to be 2nd fastest builder in this game. Humans also have weaker units at the start so orcs having the advantage of earlier units is high disadvantage for humans.

My suggestion is to increase the turns needed to create a building (factory) for the orcs.

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Savra
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans

Post by Savra » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:25 am

Were did you here they were second fastest?

I made mega buildings with all races and I've noted that:
Undead: are the fastest in building things by their cost for builders and that for megas they can make in 1-3 turns faster then others.

Elves: second fastest at making mega buildings

Orcs: rank in 3rd when it comes to megas being built

Humans : 4th in making a mega building.

Dwarves: 4-5th in building megas but they build other structures faster.

Scaledfolk: last place, they suck when it comes to building their mega because of low mend bonus. Their buildings are ok with their mend bonus.

Do you want to know why this is? Being the best builders doesn't mean having the fastest builders or undead would have been the best builders, it is the quality of the structures. Humans take longer because their castle has more health then the volcano of the orcs, both build structures in about 3 turns but humans can deduct that to 2 turns with ambidextrous, also you can increase the mend bonus on buildings with massive walls and human fortifications and buildings have a good amount of techs that improve them further, orcs only have one which gives the volcano and the volcano tower the ability to shoot a air unit at full damage but it has a cool.

At this point I see your more so just targeting orcs in spite rather then out of imbalance. Their are more factors to building then just building speed.

I've been doing that building speed test practically every time I go to test out new units, their is nothing wrong with it.

DreJaDe
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans

Post by DreJaDe » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:08 am

Okay, lol.

Here's my reason just to be clear.

When I first played it this year it's still 5 turns. Later on.. I'm shocked that when I played against an orc with elf they already build so many buildings when I saw their base and I'm still building my 2nd building so I thought there's a problem.

I'm still stuck with Humans and Elf upgrades so IDK how much others have gone. I started playing orc but with how slow they create buildings I thought they suck so I change to humans then elves.

No need for your opinion on how you see I see things, I just want to contribute and help. :)

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Savra
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans

Post by Savra » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:50 am

Ok, now we have that cleared up, and as far as upgrades go I'm kinda stuck in the same boat, except I can't earn anymore gems other then the 5 a day through Facebook. :lol:

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Alexander82
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:25 am

Currently a human worker has 10 mend rate for cost 3 while the orc one has 7 for cost 2 (basically human worker lack 0.5 mend rate to be on par with the orc).

Having more cheap workers at the start is better because the first hit always provide 1hp to the building instead of the full amount normally granted by mend rate.

Humans, in a few turn, can get ambidextria, gaining 5 mend rate.
Ambidextria grant them double mend rate +1 compared to orc slaves, giving them a edge.

Having higher mend rate, human buildings are provided more hp (cause their workers can handle the higher quantity of health keeping construction time of megas still reasonable).

I hope that answers to your question.
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DreJaDe
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by DreJaDe » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:25 am

I don't understand your answer as a way to answer my suggestion. Is that it? Is there no conclusion of that explanation? I'm already satisfied with Savra's answer but.. I'm curious in your answer.

@Alexander82

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makazuwr32
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:29 am

I know why.
Most orcish factories when were jsoned by alex received additional construcrion bonus.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

DreJaDe
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by DreJaDe » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:52 am

That was a completely different answer. Is this true? Idk what really json is but this is completely different from the answer of the two though can be said to be connected.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:02 am

Actually jsoned them alex.

I should remind that construction speed of buildings is made from 2 parameters:
1. Mend rate of worker that is used for construction;
2. Construction bonus on building.

I will post here all construction bonuses on orcish factories as well as their hps and how many hp are added with each action.

Mend rate of goblin slaves is 7.

Goblin camp has 35 hp and 70% construction bonus which results in 11.9 (rounded up to 12) hp added per action. As result it is made in 4 actions.

Orcish camp has 40 hp and 100% construction bonus which results in 14 hp added per action. As result it is made in 4 actions.

Same with monster cave: 40 hp, 100% bonus, as result 4 actions to make.

Shaman hut has 30 hp and 50% construction bonus which results in 10.5 (rounded down) hp added per action. As result it is made in 4 actions.

Carved monster cave has 40 hp and 200% bonus which results in 21 hp added per action. As result it is made in 3 actions.

Uruk tent has 70 hp and 50% bonus which results in 10.5 (rounded down to 10) hp added per action. As result it is made in 10 actions.

I will not estimate these values alas (are they fine or not). It is up to you and alex.

Just in case:
Before both shaman hut and orc camp had cost 5 actions and uruk tent had 8 actions.
Goblin camp is new, both monster caves have same construction speed as before.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:16 am

Yes. Small factories were made to be built in 4 turns (except th cave that was meant to be faster on mountain tiles).

Elite buildings are made to require more turns though
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makazuwr32
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:18 am

I think though that due to cheapness of goblins previous actions costs for shaman hut, orc camp are better balanced.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:34 am

I would rather start increasing all factories for all races at least to 40/50 hp

At the moment they are too exposed to any kind of attack.

We just need to set for all a construction bonus to make them in 4 hits (ambidextria excluded).
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makazuwr32
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Re: Goblins slave is has faster build than humans - ANSWERED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:37 am

I prefer not making all factories to be constructible in 4 actions. Races with cheap workers should have a bit more costly factories to be on pair at start with races with 3 turn cost workers.

Also please look into discord.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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