Orc Balance - ANSWERED

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Alexander82
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:45 pm

Btw scalefolks will be pending for some time. I want to implement properly Dwarves before starting another long project.
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Patrol3110
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Patrol3110 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:17 pm

May I just ask. In approximatelly how long will allvthese wonderful and great changes come into place. And honestly saying that there are other priorities is kind of like saying "your idea is bad we have a better but we need a year to pur it in". That statement was just an example.

As for undeads cursing and screaming at rock hurlers... How would a banshee, mummy or any other sort kf unit get close to a 12 range siege unit that is probably protected by dragons, ettins and uruk hai? - there is an example you asked for

Saying that our absence is a reason we don't understand what is going on is another false statement. We are not some blind people, of course we do see the dwarven and scaledfolk reworks but we are asking for changes now, not in the future
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LordOfAles
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:26 pm

Patrol has a point. At the moment I think it's easier to nerf orcs a bit than having to wait for each race to be on approximately same level as them. Plus, 2 of the races are under heavy development.
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Savra
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Savra » Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:43 am

Doesn't the giant marksmen have a miss chance? Anyway you could just increase the cost of the savage clans to 5 maybe 6-7 too. As for the upgrades maybe increase their cost too for savage clan units.

As for all orc ranged I think that they should all start off with a miss chance and only lose that debuff when they reach master rank, but for long range ones like rock hurler and such they should keep some miss chance on final upgrade to compensate. As for rock hurlers attack it could be reduced a bit.

Btw, why would you use a mummy or banshee against it? The only units of undead that could get that close and do serious damage would be the death knight, and the phantom axemen (who btw is quite perfect for fighting orcs because it's strong, has good armour, good health, and has cursed weapon. If you attack a building with cursed weapon like say a volcano, all production and actions are stopped and it becomes useless.) And if you say they are too expensive, simply think of this, if you haven't got any of those units by the end of 10 turns (rough amount that includes savage clans research and cost of giant marksmen) then something is wrong. Those giants are for long term games as well considering their cost. Undead being the worst race the way I see it at the moment have quite the amount of useful units and spells still waiting to get in, elves will have some units to compete as well and they too have quite a bit of useful stuff that is still waiting to get in. Dwarves will be getting a lot of good stuff coming in, and humans are quite fair at the moment in dealing with orcs now. Scaledfolk will be the only ones to have problems with orcs when they get revamped.

I already mentioned what I thought needed to be done to the Orcs to Lord of ales in a pm, whether that was discussed or not idk, but the most that had to do with stats was a miss chance for ranged units and that was it. But if you really have a problem with orcs having ranged units then we could always just make another tech that ties in with the other techs that effects orcs ranged units making only melee infantry of orcs be the only ones who get upgrades without a second requirement but in the end you will just make orcs into a race no one wants to play as because you needed them so much that they just become pointless to even attempt to play as. You entertwine too many techs and that will cause no one to want to play as them either because of bugs and a extremely confusing tech tree. We could meet a few units but not the entire race or we just will end up with a dead one in the end that was just as broken if not more then it was previously.

But number one thing you should note is that this is just a game and nothing is going to be perfect since it is a constantly developing game, it was intended for people to have fun and test their strategy, fighting orcs is just like fighting on hard more it makes you strategize more and in the end makes you a better strategist, win or lose. Me personally I don't actually play to win but to simply enjoy a good match wether it be a ai or player. I don't care whether I win or lose and that is how you should be playing not complaining about how you lost because someone just had stronger units then you, they were designed that way for a reason. Each race you should use to what they were designed for. Elves for example, I remember they were slaughtering my troll headhunters the moment they just got produced and they were level 3, and do you know what they were using? Archers. A large combination of archers actually, and they used the ents and sentinels to protect their tc's. It's just about your strategy that matters, do note that all these variants are based of of AGE OF STRATEGY which key word is strategy.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:39 am

Cursed weapon passive is a mistake actually on phantom axeman.

Actually miss chance for orcish ranged units sounds not so bad but troll axe thrower and goblin archer will have perfect accuracy definately.
Other throwers can have lower accuracy.

And about giant rock hurler - yes it has miss chance. 50/40/30% miss chance. But miss chance in general doesn't work when you target buildings or bonused targets.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:45 am

I personally don't want to add miss chance to any unit that isn't a siege one.

I removed miss chance from skeleton archer either since I think current miss chance, that is speed based, is a too strong downside.

Units that are meant to be able to dodge attacks can already do that though.

Rock hurler has basically bonus only against buildings (that would be hit anyway since they have 0 speed and thus are not affected by miss chance) so it can't be used efficiently as anti units.
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Patrol3110
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Patrol3110 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:45 pm

I dont like repeating myself, but hey gotta get an answer somehow. As I said, how long would we have to wait for all these wonderful changes and perfect balance?
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:58 pm

They are getting implemented one day after another. I can't really give you an esteem of the time because we have also business out of AoF with work or study.

I'm trying to implement everything something new and lately, thanks to @Stratego (dev)'s implementations, we have the chance to go further.

Probably the most time consuming part is obtaining proper images (I am one of the main designer for the game but I can't draw and script at the same time) so any help on that front is welcome.

For example I have readyed all dwarven techs thanks to @Savra's effort cause I could focus on jsoning only.

I hope I can get most of it done in a few months but that will inevitably affect balance from time to time.

Also we need to json all coded material to totally rewrite categories (after that intensive testing will be required) and here some help would be gladly accepted.
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Alexander82
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Re: Orc Balance - ANSWERED

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:01 pm

Btw I also need to mention players like @StormSaint373 @makazuwr32 @DoomsdayDragonfire @Lynx Shafir and, obviously, @General Brave that are helping me everyday on discord with suggestions, reports, images and testing
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