Jump - FINALIZED

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Alexander82
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Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:33 pm

Jump
Image
Turn cost: 6
At Tc
Effect:

Sword dancers gain the ability "jump" that allows them to jump in range 2 ignoring obstacles

This way they can jump in the middle of 4 enemies and hit 4 at times with whirlwind attack

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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:39 pm

Interesting. Sounds like a useful idea.
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Re: Jump

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:24 pm

Would be using useful for jumping rivers too, which would give more options for the map maker to give the player when they are playing his map.
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Re: Jump

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:26 pm

Just give it a cool down of 1, so it doesn't get abused as quick travel. :lol:
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Alexander82
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:18 am

Yeah. I think that a cooldown is fair enough. Also the ability to jump over small rivers is good for a melee unit.

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:49 am

Cooldown 1, so it only can be used once a turn. Yeah, definitely. +2 speed vs +4 speed. Big difference.
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Re: Jump

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:02 am

With balanced blades it's +6 speed.
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:57 am

Puss_in_Boots wrote:With balanced blades it's +6 speed.
Yep. It also mean double whirlwind after jump

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:07 am

Ouch. That's a good combo. Between the two, it might just be worth using swords dancer over sentinel for sheer damage and speed. No account for survivability though. I still maintain swords dancer should be anti infantry, not anti building.
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:13 am

With 3x action they can be anti everything xD

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:21 am

It fits the flavor more, as something that cuts down foot soldiers with ease. Buildings aren't taken down by unpredictable, fast movement as dancing with twin swords. In fact, I've wondered how swordsmen in general get a bonus vs buildings, but it doesn't bother me too much except for this particular one. A sword will bounce off a stone wall lol
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:32 pm

I think it is mostly like soldiers raiding a place. I've always been bothered more of arrows that bring down buildings lol xD

Anyway the real problem about the unit is not a matter of bonus but the fact that whirlwind attack was meant do deal damage like a normal attack (growing with techs effect) instead it deals like 4 attacks.

Anyway i don't think a high bonus against infantry would be balanced (it could take down 4 at times without receiving a counterattack). I would give it more a bonus against ranged units (that aren't expert in swordfighting). Thanks to its mobility it might be easily put in the middle of archers killing a good number at once.

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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:48 pm

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Alexander82
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:30 pm

Daniel is it ok for you?

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Re: Jump

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:40 am

i am not sure which was the discussed suggestion at the end, but generally it is weird to jump tru a mountain.

instead we can call it some kind of teleport if it is legal in adnd.

also might need coding. also ai coding to use it properly.

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:45 am

Well, I know a little in d&d 4e. The teleportation mechanics there are easily handed out with the right equipment, race, and classes. One race that is closely related to elves, eladrin, has a natural ability to teleport 5 squares (25 feet ish I think) with only a 5 minute rest to recharge. Several items give a similar ability, and one pair of boots even let's you teleport anywhere in sight up to a mile, once a day. Swordmages have a number of teleportation abilities that let players almost never have to walk.

In short, it could easily be explained as utilizing either inate magic or specialized equipment, or some combination thereof. Done this way, it might be reasonable to expand the concept to other elves we want to add it to later.

Might need a new name though. And I don't think the ai will ever use it as more than a speed boost. Not that some players will do differently.
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:05 pm

Generally teleport is something used by high level mages but in 3.5 editions there are some classes in a book called tome of battle. Those classes use KI to power up their magic-like feats. Some techniques can also stop time, so I assume we might give it a martial flavor.

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:07 pm

So I guess our options are magical, equipment based, or monk based. Honestly I think I like the equipment route, for having elf smith research it. Maybe even make this the first of a sub-category of techs there, starting with an "enchantment" tech that allows you to research a variety of abilities or upgrades, including this one. That helps build a tech tree by adding a technology to research further technologies.
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:56 pm

What about boots of enhanced jumping or Boots of dislocation?

I'd like to stick with the original jumping idea since sworddancers are the agile kind of warrior and a leap and slash action it would be more fit for them.
The ninja style dislocation (ki based) might also fit but a magical teleport is out of their flavor in my opinion.

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:08 pm

Ok so "boots of dislocation" sounds good.

Researched at elf blacksmith for 3 turns, requires you to research "enchanting" for 6 turns.

Yes, this totals 9 turns for 1 upgrade right now, but later enchanted equipment will add small 3 or so research cost options, merely making the first tech a small barrier to a variety of related options that are cheaper because of that initial input.
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:09 pm

We might avoid the enchantings thing for now. We might implement it later when we have more.

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Re: Jump

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Alright. Let's say 6 turns research for this now, and move to that system later when we have more.
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Alexander82
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Re: Jump

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:45 pm

ok

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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:07 am

please someone summarize the "finalized" suggestions, thanks!

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Alexander82
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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:22 am

It is in first post. It is like a movement (flying) in range 2 that cost 1 action.

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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:32 am

A little beyond​ flying, since​ it can jump enemy units.
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Alexander82
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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:08 pm

You are right. I forgot flyers can't pass enemy units.

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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:45 pm

i think we dont have such mechanic yet. will need coding

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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Midonik » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:04 pm

Cant you use siege tower mechanic? Also I think its a good think too add,I would want to use it in AoU and also flying units in all games should be able to pass throught enemies thought.
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Re: Jump - FINALIZED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:08 pm

Siege towers use the same mechanic as flying units.
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