Centaur herd and leader tech - ACCEPTED

Pyro
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Centaur herd and leader tech - ACCEPTED

Post by Pyro » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:01 am

Centaur herd:Centaurs find the value in teamwork and fight more effectively.

When 5 centaurs converge in the same area, they each gain trample in melee form :cost 8:

Pack leader: one centaur rises up in archery and melee prowess

When a centaur herd forms, one random centaur gains extra attack in both forms, or an extra attack, either one or both :cost 5-8:
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Midonik » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:02 am

I dont think somethink like that is passible without a lot if coding.
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:32 am

Easier version: each centaur gets an aura of range 4. All centaurs in range get +2 power. This bonus stacks on itself. Ranged centaurs get +1 power per centaur in range instead of +2.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:12 pm

+2 power each is a bit too much for a stacking tech. Also that should only apply to melee.

The idea is nice tough.

Having a group of 5 centaurs dealing +4 attack each is already a good thing. Also that would stack with the ent warrior strength aura.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:03 pm

That would result in making five centaurs in 40 in one archery,or 32 with occupacy of 2 archeries,and so on...I dont think i will ever get to use this bonus
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:43 pm

With 2 archery range you will tale 24... Anyway it is a tech that heavily depends on numbers. If you are using a strategy that involves this tech it will work greatly.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:24 pm

Ok. So all centaurs (melee and ranged) have an aura that gives +1 power to nearby (melee only) centaurs. It's not that hard to stack up 4-5 centaurs if you put some effort into making and preserving them, even with the 8 cost.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:46 pm

Yeah. Simpler and working.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:22 pm

Possible additional forms:

skirmisher centaur
8 power
4 range
3 armor
7 pierce armor
Bonus vs archers

Yes, the first mounted skirmisher. Elves are notably deficient in that area. This also makes a good "traveling" form, due to using a shield to keep away attacks.

Lancer centaur
10 power
2 range, still melee
Benefits from herd bonus attack, bonus vs cavalry.

Easy way for a centaur to bring down cavalry, or else avoid counterattacks while attacking in melee range.

All forms can transform to any other form.

One benefit of a having horse's body is the ability to keep equipment in saddlebags. This adds a lot more versatility to an already versatile unit.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:38 pm

The idea seems nice but it might require a bit of reworking of the unit to avoid it being abused too much like a separate cooldown for every form.

Also stats of new forms shouldn't be too high since the unit would trade power for versatility (it would be like having 4 units in 1 based on what you need at the moment).

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Pyro » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:34 am

I like the idea where each centaur has a bonus that only increases centaurs attacks, but my original thought was that the centaurs would gain trample to make it seem like a stampede. Could the aura give trample only because it would be a cool to see a combo with sword dancers where they get into the middle of the fray and vanquish multiple enemies because of trample already lowering many units hp. Same concept with quick archers. That may be to specific but it seems strategic to me.
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:14 am

The problem with trample after several are together is coding. Each one having an aura that gives a set, stacking bonus is easy with the existing tools in the game. Something that requires x number before it activates isn't around yet, and would be much harder to add. Good concept. It's just hard to make.

I based the stats off existing centaur forms, then relating them to archer vs skirmisher and swordsman vs spearman. Now, it might be a lot easier to have 2 different centaur units: the existing one, unchanged, and one with the 2 forms I just mentioned. The new one works with javelins, a shield, and a lance, so it has a little higher armor from the shield (not as much in lance as skirmisher) compared to the original. This removes the issue of making one unit fill 4 roles at least, as well as distinguishing 3 different transformations in each form.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:58 am

I think we are making confusion. Let's separate topics.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Pyro » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:46 am

Im not talking about an aura that requires a certain amount of centaurs to activate, im talking about an aura that each centaur will gain if the tech is researched, the aura wont affect the centaur who has it, but it will affect centaurs around it. It would be like an active affect called centaur trample or something, and all it does would be to give other centaurs trample. That would make the minimum "herd size" 2 centaurs though, and im not sure what trample does when it stacks other than mabey icreasing duration. The range of this aura should be 2 so it would seem like a closely knitted herd.
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:50 pm

It would be possible to have a stackable aura with progressive increase for trample damage but after a certain level trample would deal more damage to the other tiles than to the target's

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:14 pm

When you research this tech we might give all centaur a +1 powerrange (that means they hit also tiles near their target) and we make an aura that gives 10% damage to near tiles so it basically increase the trample damage by 10% for every other melee centaur.

I think it should be given only by melee centaurs since it should simulate a real trample (no sense for trample if another one is shooting arrows).

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:36 pm

Okay, I stand corrected. It is possible. I'd say range 3 for that aura though. It may have interesting results if we use both auras (strength of the herd, plus stampede) as separate upgrades. That would make centaurs more effective in formation, and as groups, than single units.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:25 pm

Yeah. One can be a requirement for the other.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:47 pm

My thoughts exactly. This means if you see one centaur, there's probably more coming. If playing centaurs, however, it is a good idea to expect your enemy knows this and will be packing mass quantities of anti cavalry. Good thing centaurs are versatile, and likely have a form good against anything good against them.
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Pyro » Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:46 am

This seems cooler and more strategic than i thought, im glad
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Pyro » Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:34 am

Is it decided or is it a go?
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:06 am

Seems good to me. Alexander?
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:29 am

We might do:

Herd morale: When a melee centaur has other centaurs near himself it gains a morale bonus to attack: every centaur (melee or ranged) have an aura of effect with a range of 3 that gives to all other melee centaurs +1 to attack
Cost: 6 at Tcs and great trees

Trampling charge: Melee centaurs can team up to charge against enemies trampling everything in their way: every melee centaur gain 1 to power range and have an aura of effect with a range of 2 that gives to all other melee centaurs +0.1 to trample damage.
requires Herd morale
Cost: 8 at Tcs and great trees

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:48 am

Seems ready
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:10 pm

Do we want to include drayds in that count too?

We might add another tech were drayds have a similar aura that affect the herd morale

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:17 pm

Unfortunately, dryads don't do melee attacks. This pretty much means they aren't going to fit in this. I think they need their own bonuses. Probably a way to make their poison worse (like maybe a cumulative -1 speed per hit, or -3 power)
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by LordOfAles » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:03 pm

I think dryads dont need any bonus, they are forest spirits, they dont form a herd
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:27 pm

There's that too. Let's not include them with centaurs.
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Alexander82
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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:07 pm

Ok. I was thinking to mix them together since our dryads are centaur-like.

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Re: Centaur herd and leader tech - FINALIZED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:05 am

please someone summarize the "finalized" suggestions, thanks!

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