Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

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samuelch
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Elven evasion tech pack - IMPLEMENTED

Post by samuelch » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:58 pm

This tech teaches the elves to dodge arrows. Increase all elves unit pierce armor by 1.
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samuelch
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Re: Elf Tech:Swiftness

Post by samuelch » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:19 am

Another version:Allow Elven swordsman and warrior to dodge attack with chance of 50%.
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Re: Elf Tech:Swiftness

Post by Midonik » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:27 pm

Second sounds better but probably hard to make.
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Re: Elf Tech:Swiftness

Post by samuelch » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:44 pm

My concept:After researched, allow spell on elf warrior and swordsman called ready stance that can be applied to self. The effect is only 1 turn long and enemy can't see your unit ready stance effect.
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Alexander82
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Re: Elf Tech:Swiftness

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:50 pm

I had a similar effect in mind for the elven dragon more than infantry (which will be improved in the next upgrade)
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Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:19 pm

With this tech melee elves learn how to use their speed to avoid enemy counterattacks.

I think we might add some levels to this tech to increase the evasion rate of counters

level 1: cost 5: 25% chance
level 2: cost 6 50% chance
level 3: cost 7 75% chance
level 4: cost 8 100% chance
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Alpha
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alpha » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:39 pm

So now they can dodge spears from Skirmishers and anti range units, great.
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Alexander82
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:17 pm

No, it is meant to improve melee units against other melee. For example an elf swordman will have a chance to avoid a counter from an orc warrior or an undead knight. It should be set for elves melee against any doc_close_combat unit.
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Midonik » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:57 pm

Sounds good! It will make elves git bigger change aganist other melee units,what they really need. But mayby it dont work on saintel,becouse he is already strong and I cant imagnate dodge in armor.
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Alexander82
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:22 pm

I think it might be ok too. If the best elven meele unit can't benefit from it the tech might become pointless

Non-elf units (like ents and centaurs) shouldn't benefit from that anyway
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by DoomCarrot » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:34 pm

This is a good idea, nice job. :)

Counter attack is a huge weakness for elves, as most of their melee is extremely fragile. This will make it possible to actually get a hit or two in on bigger units without suiciding them. :lol:

However, this is a huge advantage in melee. Because of this I think elven melee need to stay somewhat weaker than all other races.
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Yes it is a good one but i think that in longer games that would be balanced by stronger upgraded units for other races. They woudn't be able to dodge a direct hit tough so they would just live past the first blow (and only with a certain rate)
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:17 am

i would simplify the things:

all elven units could have an ability to dodge all counterattacks (as they are fast in nature)
or
all elven melee units could have an ability to dodge all counterattacks (as they are fast in nature)
or
all elven melee units could have an ability to dodge all counterattacks with a 70% chance (as they are fast in nature)
or
we can invent a new property "dodge", that can be set for any unit (currently for elf melee units to 0.7), and also future techs/special spells can influence it - this would be the most versatile - maybe wouldbe good for AOS/AOW units too.

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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:54 am

ok, i made these properties, so from now jsons (statsheets) can have these to set dodge for units. optional, default is 0.

dodgeRanged //ranged attack dodge chance percent 0.1 = 10%
dodgeClose //close combat dodge chance percent 0.1 = 10%
dodgeCounter //counter attack dodge chance percent 0.1 = 10%

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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Hardeep » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:08 am

:o
Daniel with them gamechangers!
:D :D :D
It sounds great!
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:47 am

Isn't 70% high as a starting value? I would, however, lower the spell resistance tough. It is impossible to deal with elves with undeads since they aren't affected from spells.
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:42 pm

spells: good idea, but against the basic rules of elves being ineffective, what u suggest? what is the value now?

70%: what u suggest?

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Alexander82
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:13 pm

The value is 80 and i'd lower that to 30 or 50 at most (they should dodge by luck and not like having a magic shield, also basic units normally have 0% resistance)

For counter dodge what about 30/50% and it might become 100% with a tech
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:51 am

resistance: 30 is extremely low for an elf. lets start with 60 (however i think that 60 is still too low for a race that should be totally immune to those spells, but lets try)

dodge: 30% can be ok for first try.

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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:45 pm

There i no setting were elves are immune to spells. In d&d elves are immune only to charm spells and diseases
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:09 pm

my fantasy knowing friend told me the basics, and said they are immune to mind spells (eg. fear, convert and such) is that false?

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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:29 pm

This is what the D&D 3.5 manual says about the elven racial traits:
Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects
In short terms the only magic immunities elves have is from the sleep spell (since in d&d elves don't sleep but enter a trance state to rest their body and mind) and they are slightly more resistant to mind affecting spell (charm person, fear and so on)

So, according to d&d, elves should be converted with a difficulty that is more or less 10/30% higher than humans (the real chance is related to the class since a good will save for a 20 level of a single class character is 12 while a bad one is 7 without counting any stat bonus).

Elves are immune to sleep so if we want, in the future, to add a sleep spell we should remember to mke elves immune to that effect.
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:46 pm

ok. let it be 40% then

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Alexander82
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:08 pm

Fair enough
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:08 pm

Fair enough
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:49 pm

This is the icon for the research
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:54 pm

Added some cynetic lines
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The Pendulum
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by The Pendulum » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:15 am

Uum. Hold up...

Implement a unit that can counter these undead spells, like an elven healer to disenchant curse on Elves etc, THEN change the units' spell resistances. As it stands, there are zero counters for elves against undead spells, which is managable with high spell resist, but totally underpowered without.

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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:03 pm

But elves swarm low cost units, do they really need a counter? Btw you can open a topic to propose it anyway.

Generally undeads are effective to hold who use costly big units by disabling it.
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Re: Improved reflexes

Post by The Pendulum » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:03 pm

Alexander82 wrote:But elves swarm low cost units, do they really need a counter? Btw you can open a topic to propose it anyway.

Generally undeads are effective to hold who use costly big units by disabling it.
How about we discuss this here, since neither thing have been implemented yet?
I dont understand the logic behind spammy units shouldnt have a counter because theyre spammy... All races have units they can spam yet those races still have a counter (healer). Furthermore, the elves were originally intended to be a fast but weak race, yet now we have the elven sentinel, who is both fast AND strong.

Stop cherry picking arguments people.

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