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Re: sniper

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:06 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
First strike is used by knights affected by the knighthood tech in AoF.

Re: sniper

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:07 am
by godOfKings
basically if a low hp infantry atks sniper and sniper has bonus, the infantry might die without dealing any damage at all...

Re: sniper

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:56 pm
by AquaAbyss
When will the German and Russian snipers be put in the game?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:08 am
by StormSaint373
Agreed, what else is needed?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:12 am
by Stratego (dev)
we need to know if current sniper is good as it is now - is it?
if so we can make the new snipers.

my tought: actually i think any other unit (eg. machinegun) is better than current sniper (to kill other infantry) - so i never train snipers, what about you?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:17 am
by Puss_in_Boots
Their range and statistics should not have been exaggerated, so I think that caused a bump on the road. Also with the current image, it looks like it can crawl like a worm at the same pace as infantry that are walking. I strongly disagree with giving them range similar to mortars.

I think this should be a more defensive unit that can avoid more damage than machinegunners.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:37 am
by Stratego (dev)
they have 1 range now - dont they?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:45 pm
by StormSaint373
Currently

15hp
6 att
1 range

400% bonus vs infantry

And Range 4 insta- kill of exposed infantry units

Can the att animation get fixed plz? The sniper shoots an arrow.

As for these stats, they're fairly balanced.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:29 pm
by Stratego (dev)
range 4?
must not have more range than 1 - i go check.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:44 pm
by StormSaint373
The special ability that has a CD of 3 or 4.

Not basic att.

Although, personally, I believe that the sniper should have a passive range of 2-4. They are known for long Ranged combat.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 2:58 pm
by Stratego (dev)
everything under 4000m should have 1 range in game,
so would look very bad that a 1km (max 2km) shot would be multiple tiles.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:11 pm
by StormSaint373
So range 2 then?

Or not the best idea...

The reason why I ask is...

• Sniper has much less hps than standard infantry
• as far as I know, they aren't stealthed.
• and as opposed to other infantry units,. They cost more.
• their passive bonuses vs infantry aren't high either.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:18 pm
by Stratego (dev)
So range 2 then? i try to avoid

Or not the best idea...

The reason why I ask is...

• Sniper has much less hps than standard infantry - it was only a mistake not raising with other infantry - ok i raised it to
• as far as I know, they aren't stealthed. - ok i gave them stealth.
• and as opposed to other infantry units,. They cost more. - now after my changes 3 turns seems ok
• their passive bonuses vs infantry aren't high either. - what does passive bonus means? however i have increase bonus against infantry to 600%

uos 10

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 3:22 pm
by StormSaint373
Ex: bonuses vs Infantry 100%

Passive: no special ability to make a unit better vs something.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:53 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
I'll try drawing images that match their abilities in game too then.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:58 pm
by StormSaint373
Seems all they need is a standing img for each...

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:57 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
@Stratego (dev) On this update, snipers are working really different, like an exported version of assassins from aos/aof, it insta kill any target (infantry, vehicles, buildings...) but is istant killed. Also, the sharpshoot hability does have 1 range... Is that intended? The unit looks very broken now.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 2:56 am
by Puss_in_Boots
Insta kill should be removed, It should take 0% counter damage with suggested stats and lack of any range >1.

Instant kill works best on kamikize rockets I think, if not just fixed amount of damage+ bonuses with self sacrifice on action.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:55 am
by Stratego (dev)
ok here is the json, please modify, thanks!

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:32 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
Changes:
-stealth forces block on being stepped on.
-34 hp
-8 power, with 450% bonus on inf and non combat vehicle.
-First Strike
-100%counter dodge
arrow sprite change to big_aa.png instead of arrow.png

Is anyone underwelmed, or would you use this unit to against enemy infantry?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 5:12 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Idk, i actually liked that older version (the one with 1 base range and 3 with skill)... So perhaps we could export something like the reptilian camaleons from AOG

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:57 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
In a sci-fi game, I can imagine snipers shooting as far as the eye can see with energy/ other non gravity affected projectiles, and scopes that can not only zoom all the way to the horizon, but even guide the projectile.

However this is WW2, and sniper rifles were really just rifles with a scope attached, bolt action or not.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 1:18 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
I know, i was thinking about that and the problem is that it is hard to find "equilibrium" of realism and balance on this case... For this game... Dealing with distance of so different warfare fields (land, sea, air) following stuff in-risk makes it impossible to equilibrate it on a way that won't feels unfair for some side... Trying to calculate the standarized range of an unit based on the perspective of a map of a bridge, or a map of a whole city, or a map of a country or a whole continental map is really breaking the range logic, i think we should focus on the actual tile range than on worrying about their real/efffective range that can end with something not enjoyable/expected when playing with the unit.

Anyway, my deepth thought is that a Sniper with melee range isn't a Sniper. So at least, the hability should have more than 1 range.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 3:14 am
by Puss_in_Boots
The easiest way to scaledown a battle is to just use change obj range trigger (it's what I plan to do), but most random maps are large scale gameplay. For example Italy map is a roughly 25/25 tiles, can one imagine docking troops onto Sicily to be shot accurately enough by sniper fire from the other side of the coast to take more than half casualties or even wipe out the entire squad (with ability)? Also another reason not to give straight trajectory weapons range is because they can't arc enough to get past walls or other stuctures from my perspective.

My idea was that we can interpret and implement it a new way by keeping them distant enough to stay out of range (meaning 100% Counterdodge) unless unit has bonus like a machinegun that is good at pelting infantry from a good distance, but in the case of which it does get attacked. They will have expected them after observing from their scopes, so they can deliver the first blow before they're in enemy's range. They deal 18 damage which should be enough to survive smg 2x attack given their less effectiveness than machinegunners. It's a decent defensive unit if you ask me.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:20 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Actually, I can see something like that... The smallest part of "Messina straight" (i guess the name is something like this) is around 3,3km... The ww2 rifles could actually shoot from one side to another so it might be possible to score few kills after some attempts (at least theorically, so i like to think that the cooldown are the failed attempts on these ranged shoots).

So on our situation, it depends on what you mean with squadron, for me is exactly those 3 to 1 units seen in the tile...
Until this squad notice that they are being attacked (when the first man is down), the sniper already had the time to calibrate his scope to that distance, so even if we take these 4km for each tile as the minimal range, on this case the sniper should be able to take out few guys at that distance as it would still have 700m of free terrain for both sides of the straight. And ofc, the squad would need to know where is the sniper to retaliate. I can't say that a single sniper is able to hold a whole landing force but he might be able to score some kills with that range... (That's actually a nice idea to do for a map)

I agree with that, but think that could be solved when "obstacles became able to block units vision", one unit should not be able to see or shoot on something behind of one cover or another defensive unit, unless someone else detect them for him and his weapon shoots in arc.

Well, it is interesting interpretation but i'm not sure about that, it does require the user to guess that aswell, perhaps it shoud state the counterdodge on the stats aswell or something about that... I'm open to test but still prefer the older one. (But that isn't like we could not have one alternative sniper with desired attributes anyway).

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:06 am
by Stratego (dev)
i think these are in - or do we miss any?

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:26 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
They still act as assassins from AoS and we're missing snipers from several other countries.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:18 pm
by Stratego (dev)
ok i have put in your last json but i have fixed this line to this:
"trnSpecUnitActions":["ATTACK_FIRST_STRIKE", "STEALTH_ONLY_UNIT", "STEALTH_FORCES_STEP_BLOCKED", "STEALTH_CAN_SEE_STEALTH"],

also i made it to be range 2 - lets try (however will be weird ssome tanks have only 1 range :))

also i will make copies to other nations (german and russian) should there be any stat difference?

we dont have german sniper image.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:42 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
The standard hp and damage differences between nations infantry.
40hp for Russian
+1 dmg for Ger.

Re: sniper +IMG

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:44 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
Stratego (dev) wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:18 pm
we dont have german sniper image.
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