The balanced Army

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COOLguy
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The balanced Army

Post by COOLguy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:14 pm

I believe that the only impervious strategy for multiplayer gameplay is a flexible balanced army (so ie not all spamming one type of unit - if any one type of unit spam is certain victory against an equal number of build turns of any other unit than that unit is OP).

This is why a balanced game is necessary. An army needs to have range, mounted, siege, and ground. However, some units are unused not because they are underpowered, but because they are too similar to existing units. I want to start a discussion about this.

I think an army needs:
labor - all throughout the game both workers and laborers are unique enough to build throughout the game to construct fortifications and production
speed - some form of mobility to help the supply chain or conquer territory. Light cavalry and mongolians are usually early favorites. Heavy knights are more common in the later stages of the game. Often unused are axe knights and special light cavalry. Simply unpopular because they are niche units.
anti speed - often fotifications and pikemen and defenders. Sometimes range can fill this role.
anti fortifications - these are the siege weapons to destroy the anti speed. Catapults and heavy and ballista. also assassins and broadswords
bulk - this is the meat of the army. Often cheap spammy units depending on playstyle
tank/strike/special - this is where the playstyles diverge. This is the attack group of the army that changes the midgame and endgame or the crucial elements of the game.

Roles that fulfill the army needs:
infantry can be the bulk or the anti speed or the anti fortifications or the tank/strike/special
Wagons can be the speed.
Fire archers can be the antifortification
crossbowmen or skirmishers are often the bulk

Groups of Playstyles I've seen:
- Basic (uses basic units and their upgrades)
- Roman (uses the Roman units with their upgrades and buffs: I've seen Doom do this)
- ...

discussion begins more later
Thanks!
Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:19 pm

COOLguy wrote: speed - some form of mobility to help the supply chain or conquer territory. Light cavalry and mongolians are usually early favorites. Heavy knights are more common in the later stages of the game. Often unused are axe knights and camels and special light cavalry and hungarians. Simply unpopular because they are niche units.
Disargree that Hungarians and Camels are underused. I love both of these units but maybe if Camels were slightly lighter to get rather than from castle only...
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COOLguy
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by COOLguy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:31 pm

Okay I could edit. Who have you seen using them/ how often?

When I say generally, I mean that most games of most people use or don't use.

I want to try to make a general anatomy of all armies that are generally used.
Thanks!
Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:47 pm

I'm using hungars at start because of their speed and damage and Camels because of their "Camel Fear" Aura (and i think this one is great one - to give all enemy cavalry -5 to damage and -1/-1 to armor is really good) when i get castle.
But because Camels need castle they are underused.
Also on sand maps like Grand Canyon Camels gain +2 to their speed!
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COOLguy
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by COOLguy » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:48 pm

Okay I will edit!
Thanks!
Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:52 pm

Axe knights definately need some uniqueness because as for now they don't have ANY bonuses against ANYTHING. and because of they are not so good.
Only good thing in them is that they have 30% spell resist. but rarely you'll see healer/priest spamming strategy.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:54 am

Not a full playstyle yet, but hopefully​ full Japanese will soon be as viable as full Roman.
Currently residing at the local ninja academy. I'm still watching though.

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LordOfAles
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by LordOfAles » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:03 am

I think most underused units are axe knight, for the makazuvr said, and axe thrower, because it has no place in game when its really useful. Not in early, not in mid and not in late game. Never
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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:11 am

Maybe if axe thrower could benefit from archer upgrades, while still dealing melee damage and without additional damage to him from archers would be good update to him.
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godOfKings
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:00 pm

Actually I use them sometimes to destroy enemy factories quickly
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COOLguy
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by COOLguy » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:34 pm

Axe thrower - overlooked because

- people prefer xbow or other archer range for a ranged anti infantry?
- people bypass him for ballista firebow or catapult for anti building?
- people rather use sword or shielder for anti building infantry?
Thanks!
Josh

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LordOfAles
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by LordOfAles » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:42 pm

My reason is the first one
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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:15 pm

COOLguy wrote:Axe thrower - overlooked because

- people prefer xbow or other archer range for a ranged anti infantry?
- people bypass him for ballista firebow or catapult for anti building?
- people rather use sword or shielder for anti building infantry?
Because of all three.
As anti infantry even normal archer with lower cost is better.
As anti building most of infantries are better and even more fire archers and catapults, with also have multiple uses (catapults are also good anti infantry and archers a exeptional vs ships).
As anti building infantry i prefer samurai, masemen, Men-at-arms they have better damage and health and samurai has 2 actions.

And even more they are count as infantry and archers have bonus damage to them. +50%

To make them more viable i think that we can imprive them by:

1. Make them as "archer-type" units but with melee damage so that they can benefit from archer upgrades and especially from increased range, also this will remove additional damage to them from other archers.

2. Give them 2 actions (maybe via upgrade).

3. Maybe if you don't want to make them "archer-type" units, then youu can give them some piersing armor (maybe 1 or 2 points).

4. Give them an upgrade in barracks: Master axe thrower
+1 action/turn.
+2 range/+2 damge.
+5 hp.
+1/+1 armor.
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godOfKings
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by godOfKings » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:48 pm

I like 4
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For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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COOLguy
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by COOLguy » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:14 pm

Is it unbalanced and underpowered or just too much of a niche or specialty unit?
Thanks!
Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: The balanced Army

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:51 pm

It is just for now a weak anti-buolding unit with almost no range (3 range? seriously?! he moves for 3 tiles!)
As for me it is a mix of swordman and archer with worst from both: weak to arrows and no increasing by any chance range from swordman (but swordman at least has 2 upgrades and cheaper) and low damage, lower than even normal archer has range. and because of it is so weak.

1. He is vurable to arrows as any other infantry.
2. He has no upgrades excluding blacksmith.
3. Low range. (Yes. i'll repeat this again and again)
4. Extremly low damage.

Also he has few good ideas:
1. Ranged unit with melee-type damage - good versus spam of skirmishers or other high-piercing armor targets.
2. Ranged unit with bonus damage to buildings (alas fire archer also has this and fills this role better).

Variants to improve him:
1. Remove his weakness to arrows - give him some piercing armor or just make him to count as archer-type unit (so that normal archers would not have bonus damage to him).
2. Give an upgrade.
3. increase range/damage.
4. Give him a bit more health (on pair with at least of swordman - +3 hp or even more) and better bonuses to buildings. Also we can give him bonuses agaunst siege units.
5. Give additional action/turn.

My personal suggestion is (both are needed):

1. increase base stats of Axeman:
Rebalance for Axeman
2. Give him upgrade.
Master Axeman
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