US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

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Hyacintho
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:25 pm

Are those grenades already implemented?
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by samuelch » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:40 pm

Not yet.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:20 pm

EDIT:

I can do some work on them. 4 JSONs on one topic.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:18 am

@Stratego (dev).
Here are 3 JSONs, one for the Plane, one for the Paratrooper, and one for the spawning of the paratrooper from the plane.
I've also modified the names of the unit images to fit the JSON.
I've never made JSONs quite like this, so I know there will be flaws. Please, if you have time, look through them and see if they are ready. If they are flawed, please tell me how.
Things to watch in the JSON: Unit ID.

Upon the successful implementation of these units, I will begin work on the grenades JSONs, which I will pursue in its own topic.
Thank you.

Also: I made the cost of the Plane 6 turns since I doubt it took as much material to make a single engine fighter jet (Wildcat?) is 5 turns) as it did to make a double engine transport.
I added the C47 into the XLS spreadsheet, and that is where I got the stats. I will post it in the XLS topic as soon as I polish it up.
I was unable to limit the flying effect granted by the C47 to just Paratroopers. Until that is fixed, all units in the Plane (which, if I coded right, is limited to infantry) will have the flying effect, similar to the siege tower.
Attachments
unit_us_plane_c47.json
(3.99 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
unit_us_inf_paratrooper.json
(3.68 KiB) Downloaded 15 times
effect_place_paratrooper.json
(834 Bytes) Downloaded 16 times
unit_us_plane_c47.png
unit_us_plane_c47.png (6.2 KiB) Viewed 965 times
unit_us_inf_paratrooper.png
unit_us_inf_paratrooper.png (5.37 KiB) Viewed 965 times
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:37 am

thanks! but i think this way it is op-

a unit that can spawn units is almost a "factory" building.

u suggest that it should "transform" to an infantry - so a plane can only be used once to drop a package.

can u change the json to this approach?

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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:01 pm

I could set it so that it can only spawn the unit once and only once, and I could also raise the cost of the plane to 7 turns if you wish. I'm not entirely sure about a plane that can transform into infantry. I think the main aspect of this plane is the fact that it operates as a flying transport, and the spawning paratroopers were just a small bonus. A transport that can carry all infantry.
Besides, this approach would keep the plane useful for much longer. A plane shouldn't be destroyed when it drops off its cargo. This plane will be used multiple times to drop off infantry, just like the half track or ground transport. It just happens to come with the added bonus of spawning paratroopers, which I can set to either has a cooldown of 8 or be a one use ability and not be able to be used again after its first use, meaning that only one paratrooper can be spawned from the plane from the plane in total.
What do you think?
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by samuelch » Fri Sep 14, 2018 1:58 pm

The summon will take like 8 turns for cooldown. It's not too spamable.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:06 pm

cooldown not the best way.

but ok, drop only "once" sounds ok.

but transport? this way you can drop everything behind enemy lines? or only infantry ? not tanks?

also it would be good if it can not "pick up" units in mid air, so should be able to get new units in airports... but i think we can not do it currently.

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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:49 pm

The ability to spawn will be permanently disabled upon its first use.
Only infantry can enter the plane,
And you have made a very good point about units entering the plane in mid flight. We should find a way around that. But as of now, I'm not sure what to do. I'll think about it a bit.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by samuelch » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:30 pm

The summon meant to avoid the using of transporting paratrooper. With summon the AI certainly know how to use it.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Hyacintho » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:42 pm

Yes, there is that aspect as well. Though as soon as the plane is made, the AI will immediately spawn as many units as it can before it even reaches the front lines, so the idea of the paratrooper plane in general was never real friendly to the AI.
This could be fixed with some clever coding telling the AI not to spawn a unit unless an enemy is nearby. Is there a way to do that? I think so, but I'm not sure. I'll have to do more research.
To help the AI, we could give the plane the option to spawn 2 or 3 units one time only. Meaning they can only spawn 2 or 3 in total. This is to give it more use to the AI. I think I suggested that earlier, though.
As for the boarding "when plane is flying," I'm afraid I've drawn a blank. Any ideas on how that should be solved, or should we simply ignore it until we have definite answer?
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by samuelch » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:46 pm

Make the ability to summon to wait for 2 turns before able to be used. This way the AI have already moved the plane forward somewhere.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri May 03, 2019 4:43 pm

i think it would be the best to have a one-role unit : tourn to a paratrooper (and vanish)

we still will have AI problems tough, but the tedious transporting feeling would not be present, also will not be that OP.

so a plane for each nation cost about 5-6 turns.
fragile - almost like a little figter plane.
can fly behind enemy lines and drop paratrooper - effect consumes the unit.

what do u think?

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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Midonik » Fri May 03, 2019 5:06 pm

So it can summon an paratrooper and then dies? Sounds good for me. Hopefully AI can be improved to be able to use it.
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Re: TO-BE-JSONED US Paratrooper and C47

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri May 03, 2019 5:52 pm

yes.
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat May 04, 2019 3:34 am

ok, it is in we need planes and troops for other nations too.
thanks!

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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by godOfKings » Fri May 10, 2019 2:19 pm

A bit complex method

Plane has 1 carry capacity and only carries paratrooper infantry with the paratrooper category

Airport can sacrifice basic infantry in adjacent tiles to summon paratrooper (like raising dead/sacrificing corpse to form skeleton in aof)

Plane has a 0 range aura that can reduce speed of garrisoned unit to 0 so garrisoned paratrooper cannot move out of plane on its own (but paratrooper can still move into plane in mid-air )

HOWEVER, paratrooper will have a ONE-TIME USE spell called deploy parachute, it gets some bonus speed that lasts 1 turn, since using spell consumes action, paratrooper cannot atk after dropping off from plane, does the MORE IMPORTANT mechanic of paratrooper dropping off behind enemy lines is maintained. After using this ability paratrooper can still enter plane but will have to b deleted since it cannot leave anymore,

So once paratrooper is deployed its best to use it until it is destroyed

Speed gained could b 1 or 2? Or some terrain modifier bonus?
Last edited by godOfKings on Fri May 10, 2019 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by godOfKings » Fri May 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Actually my idea could b extended, carry capacity could b 4 and different infantry types could give equivalent paratrooper types

Like sacrificing at infantry gives at paratrooper or flamethrower infantry gives flamethrower paratrooper (and any such infantry with weapon light enough to b carried by parachute could b transformed this way)

Also deploy parachute will give +1 speed only so that if player misuses it by not using inside plane, the infantry will still have only 4 speed max and cannot atk too.

This way each plane can carry a whole battalion of 4 paratrooper units each playing different roles, deep behind enemy lines like a secret commando troop and they may even capture the very first enemy tcs if plane moves right beside them (it would b enemy player's fault for not placing enough outposts or fighter planes and keeping tc empty, since paratrooper cannot attack once leaving plane until next turn)
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:39 am

Nobody uses these, They are like smg infantry without grenades and a flying transportation mode. I think they should be worth 3 turns and their initial plane speed increased relative to their real life movement to bombers.
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:36 am

what do u mean real lif movement?
also what is the speed value u suggest?

3 turn seems too cheap for a unit that you can (especially in fog mode) drop to enemy back and can occupy many buildings without being noticed.

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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:12 pm

I've yet to see that happen, but I think their speed should be calculated as bombers are with real world measurements. 3 speed seems to slow for paratroopers, Transport jimmies can go faster without self sacrifice, more unit capacity and variety, and only 3 turns worth of production costs.
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:09 pm

3? i thought it is 5 or so , i go check.

.......

checked:
c47 rus + us: walkrange: 5 cost 5 hp 40
ju52 ger : walkrange: 4 cost 5 hp 34

i think these were Hyachinto stats.

i think speed is ok, not sure why german is slower, we can not make it 3 turncost plane - that case no other infantry would be built ever. (this would be same cost and way faster)

.........

also i found them in xls, all speed and such are from xls

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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:52 am

Transport trucks were supposed to be 5? I mean they are cheaper than most tanks and have less capacity and available units for carry than wagons. 3 makes sense for me.
If cost 3 isn't fine how about 4?
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:44 am

it is not a transport truck - it is a form of the paratrooper a "plane form" that can only be in the beginning.
After "transforming" to trooper you can never get back to plane form.

so i am confused, maybe we have a misunderstanding.

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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:18 pm

I was trying to explain how transport trucks, not planes are more viable than the paratrooper planes, which are slower and only transforms to one paratrooper

It's a comparison to say how underpowered paratroopers are for their cost.
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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:51 pm

ok but a transport can not fly tru mountains rivers and sea, so i think it is much much better than a transport-vehicle.
also it can not even be attacked but only AA units or airplanes - so if u can send them back somehow they could simply harm enemy very hard - almost like a cheat :)

if u think it is costy maybe 4 turn cost would be good - but only if not all game will look like paratrooperplane eveywhere :)

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Re: US Paratrooper and C47 IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:48 pm

Usually it's reccomended to build bombers to cause severe damage to enemy units or prevent build fighters to prevent that. I haven't seen paratroopers used after they were implemented, so as long as I can see one in multiplayer game, I think I'm fine with cheaper cost.
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