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Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:38 am
by Alexander82
I'll give the guidelines for the dwarven race.


1) 2 upgrade levels as humans and orcs

2) unit costs should be generally higher than humans because they will end up being stronger than humans

3) only divine magic and rune magic, no offence magic since they shouldn't be able to use it

4) statwise they should be similar to humans but higher armor. Attack between humans and orcs, hp between humand and orcs (or like orcs, based on the unit).

5) smith techs better than humans

6) best gunpowder users

7) gnomes with their tecnology

8) rune tech will add magical weapon effects to unit (e.g. Fire axes, runic armors that give spell resistance and similar things).

9) beards (but not on women)

10) beer (for everyone)

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:45 am
by Tankhead
Seems like a complete rework on units.

Then Imo

Dwarven warrior
Dwarven billman
Dwarven crossbow man
And any other unit that cost 2 should be bumped to 3 with the perk tho of buff stats.

Should I make seperate topics on rework on units separately?

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:53 am
by makazuwr32
So gnomes will be like for orcs currently their giants?
Or still as a full subrace like warfell?

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:01 am
by Alexander82
Orcs subrace and most of other subraces in game will become as warfell (subfactions unlocked with techs)

So gnomes should act mainly toward that way too

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:02 am
by Alexander82
Tankhead wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:45 am
Seems like a complete rework on units.

Then Imo

Dwarven warrior
Dwarven billman
Dwarven crossbow man
And any other unit that cost 2 should be bumped to 3 with the perk tho of buff stats.

Should I make seperate topics on rework on units separately?
I think we can discuss here the army structure but singular units should be discussed in singular topics

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:05 am
by Tankhead
Ok
Well what you think bumping 2 cost units to 3 with buff stats?

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:15 am
by Alexander82
I think they might cost 3. We might just have 1 or 2 cost 2 units but their mayn army should basically have at least a +1 cost over human units of the same kind.

I know it might slow down their start but they also have the best workers so they can afford to produce less of them in favor of more units.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:01 am
by makazuwr32
Alexander82 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:38 am
7) gnomes with their tecnology
Does this mean that gnomes will be part of dwarves normally (like currently trolls and other giants of orcs) or they must be researchable like warfell for humans?
Alexander82 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:38 am
10) beer (for everyone)
I wonder what will this do...

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:11 am
by Alexander82
makazuwr32 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:01 am
Alexander82 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:38 am
7) gnomes with their tecnology
Does this mean that gnomes will be part of dwarves normally (like currently trolls and other giants of orcs) or they must be researchable like warfell for humans?
I think we might give only some basic technologic units without a contract, but i will be definitely needed for later upgrades.

It might be seen like buying projects and support from gnomes

makazuwr32 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:01 am
Alexander82 wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:38 am
10) beer (for everyone)
I wonder what will this do...
I still don't know but dwarves without beers are like a starless sky :D

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:19 am
by makazuwr32
About gnomes:
I see. I like this idea. So basically some very basic units and techs will be availible at base but more advanced must be researched like warfell.

About beer and such:
1. Beer can be like healing ability on tavern but it also gives side effect — miss chance for next 1-2 turns.
2. Beer can be like lembas with same effect.
3. It can be on Dwarven Brewer unit who can have it in 3 forms:
A. Healing (same effect, low miss chance aftereffect)
B. Drunken gaze (throws a mug into enemy and that unit gains high miss chance due to beer, dwarves themselves and undead are immune to this).
C. Fire breath - Dwarven brever takes a full mouth of beer, than spews it out right before a torch he holds.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:51 pm
by Tankhead
Miss chance???
You think they can't handle their beer???

Well anyways the heal rate better be high to give such a bad side affect

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:27 pm
by makazuwr32
Low chance, tanky. 5-10%, fixed and won't be affected by speed and other things.
Heal rate must be 15-20 i think. But for that actually we will think after changing stats for their basic units.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:31 pm
by Tankhead
Ummm
Really wish that workers, siege, and blacksmith wasn't all in one.
Not sure what fantasy you guys seen where sieges are made in the same place as a blacksmith.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:59 pm
by makazuwr32
Only melee siege is in craftsman's guild.
Ranged siege must be in shooting stand i think.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:04 pm
by Tankhead
I know but the fact of the matter 3 different things are in one

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:20 pm
by makazuwr32
And that is actually good.
I don't like idea of giving for dwarves separate from craftsman's guild blacksmith building and making separate building for manufactured units (transport zeppelin, battering ram) separate building for now is not so good idea.

Alas i think that gunpowder techs (rifling and heavy cannons) must be researched in another building. I am thinking about tavern or shooting stand.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:43 pm
by Tankhead
Its still sketchy to me to have 3 important categories shoved in one building.
Wouldn't mind 2 but 3 imo too much. Especially seeing that the level of value for other buildings are none.
So my suggestion

I think range, and barrel techs should be researched in shooting stand.

Armor and swords in barracks

Shields in craftsmen guild

Heavy cannons in tavern

This gives value to all buildings in a equal way

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:05 pm
by makazuwr32
Barracks will have i think tech similar to human infantry for researching. But i suggest for that tech to affect allelee units instead.
Shooting stand will have similar tech as well that i hope will affect ranged units.
For cav units i think there is needed additional building and additional tech.

Also value level of other buildings is rather high actually.
Tavern: produces alchemists. Most valuable caster for now in the entire game.
Rune mansion: upgrades clerics and produces them and monks. Will later also used for researching runes.
Barracks: holds many non-tc units. I suppose that defenders will also get into barracks later.
Shooting stand: will hold ranged siege and other ranged units.

And a bit more about craftsman's guild: its main function as for me is blacksmith and after everything is researched than it can be used as additional factory for producing workers, transport zeppelins or battering rams (also battering ram is not siege actually — its main function is to transport infantry units in safety).

Just a reminder: dwarves still can produce their normal workers in tcs.

Also orcs have in their tent even more categories:
Melee
Ranged
Giant
Siege
Researching techs

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:59 am
by Savra
So what are cavalry standards for dwarves again?
Currently I can't locate were it was I found it last but if I remember correctly it was suggested:
Boars for main
Bears for anti cavalry
Donkeys for scouts

I could agree with all but the donkey part because I think we should look a little closer to the dwarves home for a mount and by that I mean the mountain goats that would be scaling the cliffs. They are quite agile and easy to maintain.
Image

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:11 am
by makazuwr32
Image wise base of dwraven army (excluding casters) is ready.

For cavalry dwarves have boars for now (and alex wants pony for scout instead of boar).
So as result:
Pony scout
Boar lancer
Boar knight

Bears will be kept for elite mounts of defenders.

By the way, @Savra, do you want to join to our discord server about aof planning?
We mostly for now are planning things there.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:12 am
by LordOfAles
Can't something else be put at scouting, instead of ponies? They aren't fast. At all.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:22 pm
by makazuwr32
I prefer boars.
Also dwarven scout will have still lower speed than other scouts - only 5.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:35 pm
by Savra
As for discord, I tried getting in but my device lacks a certain feature to get in completely, still figuring out a way around it currently though.

As for scouts, I believe mountain goats would fit better then ponys, again they are quite agile and are more closer to the dwarves homeland. What images are currently needed for dwarves units anyway? I might be able to complete some of them but I would need the base for all 3 forms.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:53 pm
by makazuwr32
We need:
Dwarven priest with 3 tiers (pure caster, no weapons; maybe some magic sphere in one of hands);
Dwarven cleric with 3 tiers (fighter+caster weapon choice is up to you);
Dwarven alchemist tier 2 and 3 (updates from tier 1);

If you want you can also try to remake scout into goats. I can provide with current scout images and current dwarven base images (without arms) if you need.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:13 pm
by Alexander82
I have almost ready clerics. @Savra you might focus on pony/goat

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:07 pm
by makazuwr32
Here are current images made by @StormSaint373

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:25 am
by Savra
Thx, I'll try my hand at those.

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 3:32 am
by Savra
First, a look. How does this seem so far? (Which is better)

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:14 am
by Alexander82
The image is nice but the goat seems a bit too slim to be a dwarven mount and a bit too on the side.

My idea when I've read of a goat went to the old days of ultima online

Take a looke here:

Image

Re: Dwarves rework

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:24 am
by Savra
Alexander82 wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:14 am
The image is nice but the goat seems a bit too slim to be a dwarven mount and a bit too on the side.

My idea when I've read of a goat went to the old days of ultima online
Like this?