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Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:05 pm
by Stratego (dev)
I realized that we should not make "i think" things on unit types that have very exact data on internet.
So we need to compare the real values of tanks, and i figured out this XLS form to do that (i made it for myself a year ago when i started to build this game)

My great request if someone could fill up all TANKS we have in game already (first only tanks, later we will continue with other units types that has information on intenet - mostly all war machines has info on internet)

thanks!

(here is he xlsx attached, i enabled posting XLS on forum.)



IMPORTANT:
In the XLS
- the "blue" columns means the real value (speed, armor etc.), - fill these with real WIKIPEDIA based information
- the yellow columns are the current in-game values: in-game speed, in-game armor and so on. - fill these with in-game current values (get latest version)


please fill up both for TANKS - thanks!


latest xls
<please email to Stratego for the latest XLS>
(i do not update it always as almost daily changes with new units - so please ask for an update if you want the current)

and image:



Formulas (i was not sure if everyone can read XLS and decode how formulas are giving the values):

TANKS:
hp calc= (<weight> * 3 / 2.4) + 5
armor calc = <max armor> / 15
speed calc=( <speed>-10)/20+<op.range>/100
power calc = <gun dia> / 3.5

(tell me if anyone need the other formulas in xls (anti tank, AA and so on - they might differ)

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:29 pm
by Dan301002
What Hp stat represent in real-life?
And do you actually attached something?

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:24 am
by Stratego (dev)
sure, idk how it vanished, but there it again.
thanks!

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:42 pm
by samuelch
Added real data.

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:46 pm
by Stratego (dev)
thanks! very good!

we will need the other tanks already in game (that might not be listed in xls, put them as new lines into tanks section)

thanks!

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:05 am
by Stratego (dev)
I think we need it first, is anybody working on it?

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:44 pm
by samuelch
I am working on it.

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:17 pm
by Stratego (dev)
awesome! thanks!

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:22 pm
by samuelch
Finish tanks.

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:06 pm
by Stratego (dev)
Thanks!

i have extended it with 2 extra columns: armor min & max and operational range.
ALSO: i have filled up the current properties of units (yellow cells)
ALSO: i made some equations based on historical values to get a calculated in-game value (peach colored cells)

so there is a suggestion how to change the properties.

please check the equations in the XLS and tell me your suggestions:

remark: into speed i started to calculate in the "operation range" since russian tanks had much-much bigger operationsl range (~160 < ~400 km) , so extra movement would go to them.

so please check the tanks and the calculated values and tell me what you think.

(image removed)

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:52 am
by Stratego (dev)
Smiel, Prof.Gamer: please give me feedback so we can finalize the properties of tanks. please tell me if
a) the equations are
b) or how we should modify it
c) or should we get rid of equations :)

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:17 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
T-34's maximum armor was 60mm, not 47.

Panther's minimum armor was 10mm and its maximum armor was 110mm.

Kv1's minimum armor wasnt 70mm. Wikipedia doesnt say how many mm the tanks back was, so considering the tanks back is the weakest part of the tank, im gonna guese it was around 25mm.

Tigers maximum armor wasnt more than the panthers. Panthers max armor was 110mm, so tigers tank max was around 100mm.


Since t-34 and kv1 had the same main armament, they should both have 20 firepower.

Sherman should also have 20 firepower, because it was armed with a 75mm gun.

Panther should have the same hp and armor with the tiger tank. Panther was equiped with a 75mm gun as well, so its firepower should be 20 too.

M26 pershing's cost should be 6 and its armor should be 6 too.

Kv1's hp should be 65 and its armor 6.

These are the things you should change in order to make the game realistic.

Re: TANK properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:51 pm
by Stratego (dev)
Can u please update the wrong values in the real columns? Blue ones.

You have not talked about the calculated fields, however the MOST important question is this: are those calculations ok?

here is the current XLS (i have changed the calculations a bit)
stats_v2.xlsx
ps: "Since t-34 and kv1 had the same main armament, they should both have 20 firepower." from this i presume you misunderstood: i am about to change the current (yellow) properties to the calvculated ones (peach colored)
Tell me if you want me to copy here the calculations (you see them in XLS tough)
statsv2.jpg

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:21 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
The calculations are fine.

I downloaded the file but i cant change anything at all. Any ideas why?

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:27 pm
by Stratego (dev)
no, you can modify anything.
maybe your excel opened it for readonly, there use to be a bar on top to set "editable".
or send me a screenshot so i might have ideas.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:41 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Im on android at the moment. Maybe thats why i cant edit anything.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:50 pm
by Stratego (dev)
yep, that might be :)
do you have access to a PC in general?

(i am updating it with your suggtestions - samuel might have found different sources if there are deviances to your values)

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:57 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Yep, i do. Im going to login with my pc as well tomorrow.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:01 pm
by Stratego (dev)
I have updated these:
T-34's maximum armor was 60mm, not 47.
Panther's minimum armor was 10mm and its maximum armor was 110mm.
Kv1's minimum armor wasnt 70mm. Wikipedia doesnt say how many mm the tanks back was, so considering the tanks back is the weakest part of the tank, im gonna guese it was around 25mm.


i saw this and said 120: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I
"Tigers maximum armor wasnt more than the panthers. Panthers max armor was 110mm, so tigers tank max was around 100mm."


I have not changed these, i let the formula do it instead, we need to change the formula if these are not good:
Since t-34 and kv1 had the same main armament, they should both have 20 firepower.
Sherman should also have 20 firepower, because it was armed with a 75mm gun.
Panther should have the same hp and armor with the tiger tank. Panther was equiped with a 75mm gun as well, so its firepower should be 20 too.
M26 pershing's cost should be 6 and its armor should be 6 too.
Kv1's hp should be 65 and its armor 6.



also: i see that most tanks (eg. Ger) have some kind og "Ausf" subversions, so in xls we should indicate which is that, and also in game naming too. - so please if you get to your PC please write to the unit name column this subversion value too - thanks.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:17 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Im pretty sure panther was more armored. I might be wrong but, its not that much of a deal anyways. Their difference is only 10mm either way, so nothing should change.

Indeed, ill edit them tomorrow.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:31 pm
by Stratego (dev)
cool! thanks!

also can i send you jsons, so you can learn how to modify them?
here is one, here you can modify the stats of this sample Tiger unit (to the values the "peach" column shows in xls).
unit_ger_tank_tiger_i.json
(3.95 KiB) Downloaded 42 times
also here is the latest xls

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:17 am
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Daniel (the dev) wrote:cool! thanks!

also can i send you jsons, so you can learn how to modify them?
here is one, here you can modify the stats of this sample Tiger unit (to the values the "peach" column shows in xls).
unit_ger_tank_tiger_i.json
also here is the latest xls
stats_v3.xlsx
Thanks, ill check them out later.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:15 pm
by Stratego (dev)
ok i am now starting to update the jsons to the values desired by the peach columns.
last chance to say any suggetion to change the formula.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:45 pm
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Whats the difference between jsons and XLS?

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:14 pm
by Stratego (dev)
xls is for us to see them in one view comparable with their properties.
json if fotr the game (in json you can define the unit stats)


Ok tank changes are UOS 10!

this version:
stats_v5.xlsx
(22.07 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
with image:
(image removed)

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:22 pm
by Stratego (dev)
next small tasks would be in this "unit prop. finlaizing" are

1. TANKS:
1/a. - putting in JP tanks too into the list (now the xls is at v5)
1/b. - the existing units needs their exacty types (eg. AUSF D / AUSF J on german units.)

2. HOWITzers: these could be next - we need to fill them into xls and gather real values into blue columns.

3. Field GUNS:

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:43 am
by Stratego (dev)
here is the upgdated XLS with Stug III.

we still need these:

1. TANKS:
1/a. - putting in JP tanks too into the list
1/b. - the existing units needs their exact types (eg. AUSF D / AUSF J on german units.)

2. HOWITZERs: these could be next - we need to fill them into xls and gather real values into blue columns.

3. Field GUNS: and these: to fill them into xls and gather real values into blue columns.

.

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:32 am
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Daniel (the dev) wrote:here is the upgdated XLS with Stug III.

we still need these:

1. TANKS:
1/a. - putting in JP tanks too into the list
1/b. - the existing units needs their exact types (eg. AUSF D / AUSF J on german units.)

2. HOWITZERs: these could be next - we need to fill them into xls and gather real values into blue columns.

3. Field GUNS: and these: to fill them into xls and gather real values into blue columns.

.
I'll try to do it myself. I will send you the file when i finish (probably tomorrow).

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:34 am
by Prof_GamerARCHIVED
Can i have all the jsons to change some of the units stats?

Re: Properties XLS - for unit differentiation

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:37 pm
by Stratego (dev)
sure, email me.