Infantry Stats Change IMPLEMENTED

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makazuwr32
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:22 pm

Professional_Gamer wrote:If the soviets were actually well armed and trained they wouldnt take the most casualties in the war (they always took twice the german casualties). The tactics they used were crap as well.
There was many moments:
1. Nazi's sistematically murdered all war prisoners as well as local people.
2. Nazi attaked suddenly, without declaring a war.
3. USSR wasn't completely ready for war at that time. And Nazi knew that.
The tactics we used were good to lower "casualties". We also evacuated to the Siberia and other safe places more than 2'000 fabrics!

In 1941 in first 3 days of war with Nazi German USSR also lost 40-50% of their tanks, planes, artillery.
But not only that.
Every soldier of Red army was fighting 'till the death. No prisoning. Only 0.5-1% of surronded soviet soldiers gave up to Nazi's. Everyone else fought to the death.
Also everyone in soviet army (or at least 99% of because there were some traitors) thought that "if i'll die but take with me few nazi's then for everyone else would be a bit easier" or just hold a bit them to save others. At price of their life.

You don't take into account that the war between USSR and German was for life of USSR. If we lost then there would be no more USSR, Russia, Moscow, St.-Petersburg and 80% of other cities of Russia.
samuelch wrote:Or this stats is ok for the Soviet infantries. But make the cost to 3. The Soviet will get a similar unit called Opolchenye. A 2 turn cost units with a horrible attack same hp. At the late game you can research a tech to make regular Soviet infantries cost 2 thus making opolchenye obsolete.
This isn't needed.
Soviet infantries were well trained.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Prof_GamerARCHIVED » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:28 pm

So what you are telling me is that throwing men blindly in the battle just to get slaughtered is a good tactic? Thats basically all they did thats why they always took more casualties than the germans.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:31 pm

I don't know what did you learn...
BUT THERE WEREN'T ANY "THROWING MEN AT SLAUGHTER" OPERATIONS!

Each operation from the autumn 1941 was Carefully designed. EACH. Sometimes that took 3-5 days without sleeping.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Prof_GamerARCHIVED » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:32 pm

How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:33 pm

Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.
Not Germans.
Soviets.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:33 pm

Professional_Gamer wrote:So what you are telling me is that throwing men blindly in the battle just to get slaughtered is a good tactic? Thats basically all they did thats why they always took more casualties than the germans.
Maybe the Soviet is desperate to stop enemy tanks from advancing. From wikipedia: In urban combat later in the war in eastern Germany, about 70% of tanks destroyed were hit by Panzerfäuste or Panzerschrecks.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:35 pm

samuelch wrote:Or this stats is ok for the Soviet infantries. But make the cost to 3. The Soviet will get a similar unit called Opolchenye. A 2 turn cost units with a horrible attack same hp. At the late game you can research a tech to make regular Soviet infantries cost 2 thus making opolchenye obsolete.
This discussion king of getting out hand,why not just go for compromise samuelch suggest? It sounds fine.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Prof_GamerARCHIVED » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:39 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.
Not Germans.
Soviets.
Sorry about the missunderstaning.

Everyone knows how terrible russian army was prepared in ww2. Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.
Last edited by Prof_GamerARCHIVED on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:40 pm

Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"
There were partisans who worked in occupied territory.
I am thinking how can we make them implemented.
Professional_Gamer wrote:
makazuwr32 wrote:
Professional_Gamer wrote:How could the germans even lose half of their planes, artillery and tanks in the first 3 days of war? Just think of it please.
Not Germans.
Soviets.
Sorry about the missunderstaning.

Everyone knows how terrible russian army was prepared in ww2. Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.
We were pretty good prepared. Not on 100% but pretty good. Because if we weren't than we wouldn't win. Also better than for example France.
but still when you lost 50% of your army excluding infantries for most of armies that would be steamrolling victory for Nazi's. And Soviets still stopped and after a while defeated them.
Professional_Gamer wrote:Im starting to think that you are disagreeing just because it has to do with your country.
I'm disagreeing with because
1. I'm learning and writing dessertation about this war.
2. M Grandgrand dad on mother side and Grandgrand mother from father side were killed at this war.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:44 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"
From wikipedia: "The Narodnoe Opolcheniye was formed again in 1941 during the Great Patriotic War in significant numbers.[23] Sixteen divisions were formed in Moscow. Eighteen were formed in Leningrad, of which five became regular rifle divisions."
Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodnoe_Opolcheniye
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:47 pm

samuelch wrote:
makazuwr32 wrote:Because there wasn't any "Opolchenie"
From wikipedia: "The Narodnoe Opolcheniye was formed again in 1941 during the Great Patriotic War in significant numbers.[23] Sixteen divisions were formed in Moscow. Eighteen were formed in Leningrad, of which five became regular rifle divisions."
Link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodnoe_Opolcheniye
Again.
They weren't in armies on front lines.
They were in occupied territories. Known as "Partizans".

And these divisions were formed from NOT an yesterday civilians who doesn't know anything about war. These divisions were formed from former engeneers and were trained for 2 months before moving to the front.


If you want i can send you my work. Just 1k+ pages A4 format. And that only about 6 months of 1941.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:57 pm

I mostly read from wikipedia and the page doesn't tell much about ww2 opochenye so the arguments end here.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:06 pm

Partizans i think must be weaker version of normal soviet soldier (yes) but with many unique diversion abilities and when you train him he spawns randomly at map if there is no neutral TC's or near one of them if there is. Costs higher (5 or even 6 turns), can't build any fabrics and bunkers but can place for 1 turn mines, has 2 actions/turn and is completely invinsible. Can randomly spawn with at rifle, machine gun, with or without grenades. also he can have several abilities from assasins (like stealing researches, sabotage production)
Consider them as "Elite unit" of USSR because there wasn't in any other countries similar things with same amplitude.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:09 pm

How about just "conscripts"? Like in Coh2...
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:17 pm

All of them were conscripts. Everyone 'till the last soldier were either conscripts or regular soldiers.
So i don't think this is needed. also thank for that.
Every man in USSR was conscript and needed to live in army for at least 1 year.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Belfry777 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:02 am

Interesting... So the user gets armor?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:18 am

Should I increase at least hp of other infantry types (eg. mortars) too?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:24 am

Smgs, mgs, at rifle gets the same hp as the rifleman from their nations. Bazooka gets more hp the same as Us rifleman. Pzschreck gets 36 hp.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:57 am

Ok,so I'm supposed to make all infantry types besides panzershreck having as many hp as ralfiemen of their nation and sane movement penalties/bonuses?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:58 am

Any increase of hp for engineers?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:05 am

Midonik wrote:Ok,so I'm supposed to make all infantry types besides panzershreck having as many hp as ralfiemen of their nation and sane movement penalties/bonuses?
Yes
Midonik wrote:Any increase of hp for engineers?
All nations 15
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:11 am

OK,so everything,besides the albitly to hide is in and seems to work. Should I send it to Daniel? Also,think about gb infantry.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:25 am

Yes. Send it. I will think gb infantry later.
How about the movement bonus and penalty?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:26 am

It's in too,all infantry types (engineers too) have same movements as ralfiemens of their nation.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 am

Already implemmented or accepted?
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:35 am

Looks like Daniel accept it,so if anyone doesn't oppose,I just need to send JSONs to Daniel and he will implement them.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by samuelch » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:00 am

If this is implemented artilleries unit will gain more bonus against infantries. So tanks role will be:
Light tanks= Kill infantries because it will get more bonus against infantries and able to kill infantries in 1 hit
Medium tank= Break through heavy fortification, killing mgs and mortars, killing damaged infantries, destroying buildings.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:04 pm

Midonik wrote:Looks like Daniel accept it,so if anyone doesn't oppose,I just need to send JSONs to Daniel and he will implement them.
Please someone summaroze changes bevause i do not know what is the final suggestion

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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:32 pm

samuelch wrote:
Final:
Us infantry
Attack:8 can be upgraded to 10
Hp: 35
Speed=3 Gets +1 speed on sand tiles.

Soviet infantry
Attack: 8
Hp: 42
Speed: 3 +1 speed on forest and snow tiles

German infantry
Attack: 10
Hp: 32
Speed=3 -1 speed on forest tiles , can't climb mountains (their elite or more powerful units won't get these 2 traits.)

Japanese Infantry
Attack: 7
Hp: 40
Speed=3
That's what I put in JSONs. Also,I have increased hp of infantry types units to same as ralfiemen of their nation and all engineers hp to 15.
Last edited by Midonik on Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Infantry Stats Change

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Don't forget the UK! We have them inside the game. It would be best if we made new stats for them as well.
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