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Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:41 pm
by Rotholz
Cost: 3(or 4 depending on option)
HP: 17
Attack: 21
Range: 1
Armor: 0
Pierce Armor: 3
Speed: 0
Sight: 0
Action/Turn: 1/1
Spell Resistance: 0%
Size: 1x1
Builders: Town Center, Barracks
Bonuses: 75% against all buildings, siege weapons, and most infantry.
+100% bonus against heavily armored and shielded units, and reduces their defence based on shield size.

(Optional) Knocks back lightly armored units by 1 tile, and makes them drown if they land in water.
(Optional 2) Bludgeon: Prevents the target hit from healing for the next 2 turns and deals 1 damage that ignores armoe whenever they move or perform an action for the next 6 turns.

Description: An infantry unit wielding a two-handed polemace, which deals devastating damage against armor and shields, specifically designed to bludgeon targets.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:04 pm
by Endru1241
There is already unit that is specialized to bludgeon and deal with armored enemies - maceman.
Listed optional abilities are both impossible to implement:
1. Engine doesn't allow effect to move unit (yet).
2. Both healing prevention and conditional damage is not possible and probably won't be. This is also too complicated (unnecessarily too).
Listed stats are also completely unbalanced - I already changed most units with one-shoting attacks - there is no need for more of it again.
Units one-shoting pricy, quite slow heavy infantry units just makes players not use them at all.
Cavalry have their counters, but at least they also got manuverability in exchange (or huge hp in case of elephants).

There was already discussed different anti-armor unit - heavy infantry (poleaxeman, poleaxe knight, pollaxman, pollax knight) Poleaxeman - to understand completely reading Gral.Sturnn posts is necessary, but maybe some fine idea could came from knowing it.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:50 pm
by Rotholz
Endru1241 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:04 pm
Units one-shoting pricy, quite slow heavy infantry units just makes players not use them at all.
Cavalry have their counters, but at least they also got manuverability in exchange (or huge hp in case of elephants).
Cost: 4
HP: 20
Attack: 17
Range: 1
Armor: 1
Pierce Armor: 3
Speed: 3
Sight: 4
Action/Turn: 1/1
Spell Resistance: 0%
Size: 1x1
Builders: Town Center, Barracks
Bonuses: 75% against all buildings, siege weapons, and all infantry.
Deals AoE damage with the extended reach of the hammer(or alternatively: More counter damage vs heavy units.)

I like the concept and wouldn't like the poor maceman to be alone, so I hope the new concept is a bit better. I wanted it to be available after researching something(so it'd be available only later into the game).
What'd be funny is maybe the Maulman is a heavy infantry himself so he can be countered by himself (much like the Lancer).

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:15 pm
by makazuwr32
I must admit that actually healing prevention can be done via reducing healing rate on unit by -100% (so all healing it receives is reduced to 0).

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:26 pm
by Rotholz
makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:15 pm
I must admit that actually healing prevention can be done via reducing healing rate on unit by -100% (so all healing it receives is reduced to 0).
That's great. If you can make the healing prevention, but not the damage then I'm fully satisfied. Perhaps the balance needs working on and I wouldn't mind seeing the Maulman being implemented somewhat differently than in the original post/my other suggestion

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:19 pm
by Endru1241
Rotholz wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:50 pm
Cost: 4
HP: 20
Attack: 17
Range: 1
Armor: 1
Pierce Armor: 3
Speed: 3
Sight: 4
Action/Turn: 1/1
Spell Resistance: 0%
Size: 1x1
Builders: Town Center, Barracks
Bonuses: 75% against all buildings, siege weapons, and all infantry.
Deals AoE damage with the extended reach of the hammer(or alternatively: More counter damage vs heavy units.)

I like the concept and wouldn't like the poor maceman to be alone, so I hope the new concept is a bit better. I wanted it to be available after researching something(so it'd be available only later into the game).
What'd be funny is maybe the Maulman is a heavy infantry himself so he can be countered by himself (much like the Lancer).
Look at foot knight stats - most regular heavy infantry right now:
HP: 22 -> 27 -> 31
Power: 10 -> 12 -> 14
Armor: 4/3 -> 5/3 -> 6/4
Bonuses:
+50% vs light infantry, medium infantry and archers
+100% vs structures and siege machines

Most stand-alone units have stats about 2nd tier (1st upgraded) of unit with cost lesser by 1. With additional speciality boost.
Let's say it should be equivalent of 27 hp, 12 power, 5/3 armor.
E.g. :
5 turns, 26hp, 14 power, 4/3 armor, bonuses: +50% vs heavy cavalry, +100% vs heavy infantry, structures, +150% vs siege machines, fortifications, +250% vs armored siege, affected by blacksmith upgrades
He would then one-shot 1st tier foot knight, 2nd tier would need additional counter and 3rd one needs 2 attacks. After full blacksmith upgrades he would kill elite foot knight with counter+ regular attack.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:15 pm
I must admit that actually healing prevention can be done via reducing healing rate on unit by -100% (so all healing it receives is reduced to 0).
You're right! I completely didn't think of it.

But still - I feel it just doesn't fit this situation.
Something that would prevent healing completely would rather be some kinda horrible poison maybe. Otherwise it gives too much of a fantasy feeling.
Although some smaller value per attack could work, but power would have to be smaller.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:28 pm
by Rotholz
I based the attack damage off of the Maceman, who's premise it was to have high attack damage, but low defence, which was kinda what I was hoping to achieve. The effect nullifying healing was supposed to represent a serious wound, but if that is too overpowered, or unfitting, then the AoE with slightly reduced attack damage would be good, as long as it's balanced

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:02 pm
by Endru1241
When exactly Maceman was supposed to have high damage?
Original topic shows nothing about it - Maceman.
I haven't found any topic on forum talking about higher damage on maceman - on the contrary - there was few mentions about nerfing it's damage.

Besides 14 power is plenty strong - it's barely less than elephant!
With 2 levels of sword mastery it's 32 base damage vs heavy infantry and 24 vs heavy cavalry.
This would make solid, quite resilent (but not too much) heavy infantry with some quirk - specific bonuses which somehow combines the best of maceman and flail (skipping ignore armor ability).

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:22 pm
by Rotholz
Endru1241 wrote:
Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:02 pm
When exactly Maceman was supposed to have high damage?
Original topic shows nothing about it - Maceman.
I haven't found any topic on forum talking about higher damage on maceman - on the contrary - there was few mentions about nerfing it's damage.

Besides 14 power is plenty strong - it's barely less than elephant!
With 2 levels of sword mastery it's 32 base damage vs heavy infantry and 24 vs heavy cavalry.
This would make solid, quite resilent (but not too much) heavy infantry with some quirk - specific bonuses which somehow combines the best of maceman and flail (skipping ignore armor ability).
Sorry, I overlooked the 12 damage, and thought it was actually 17 :? ! But yes, with the damage being around 14 would be good. According to the wiki the maceman is not affected by sword mastery, so the Maulman wouldn't be affected either and we have to take this into consideration while balancing this unit.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:35 pm
by Endru1241
Nah, wiki is outdated.
Maceman used to have 17 damage before balancing in version 1.106, but I believe it could have been mistake on implementation.
Also since the same update he is affected by all blacksmith research.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:44 am
by Gral.Sturnn
any visuals?

Re: Maulman

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:45 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
A common tactic for Maul wielders is to break legs first, so the enemy cannot escape and he has the time to complete his second blow. Even such a heavy weapon wouldn't impact with enough force to validate aoe. The only skill I would add is to reduce speed, but I wouldn't inflate the damage because of how much time is needed to prepare another attack.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:03 pm
by godOfKings
May b a 1 turn CD ability leg break: reduces speed by 1 for 2 turns, not applicable to siege and cavalry Ability deals half of base damage

Re: Maulman

Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:31 pm
by Rotholz
Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:44 am
any visuals?

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:37 am
by Gral.Sturnn
Very cool sprite Rotholz! now try and give him a black outline to his body and maul and make his proportions more similar to those in game

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:45 am
by Rotholz
Gral.Sturnn wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:37 am
Very cool sprite Rotholz! now try and give him a black outline to his body and maul and make his proportions more similar to those in game
I tried my best :D But I didn't know how to make the shadow like the other troops in the game have, so I'd like someone else to be so kind and take care of it

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:40 pm
by patroid
Hi,
tryed some shading but it looks maybe too much different thenthe other units in the game?

patroid

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 10:32 pm
by Endru1241
Shaded2 looks muh better.
But You made him horny ;).

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:30 am
by Puss_in_Boots
He needs narrower hips and shorter height to become the proportionate size of other soldiers.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:55 am
by godOfKings
Due to his size, his weapon looks smaller

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:56 am
by Rotholz
patroid wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:40 pm
Hi,
tryed some shading but it looks maybe too much different thenthe other units in the game?

patroid
I love the second shaded one. It may look different, but I like the intimidating design choice, and intimidation played a role on the medieval battlefield, so that's cool. Hope it gets implemented and thank you for remaking it

Re: Maulman

Posted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:43 am
by Lynx Shafir
The image looks odd

Remove horns! and colouring eh like fat mutant aboriginal tribal warrior in a reed skirt..
Better edit pikeman..

For 4 cost I think can have slowing 2 passive
Or to cause crippled status - 2 speed, - 2hp/turn(bleeding)

Re: Maulman

Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 4:16 am
by Endru1241
I am a little afraid of adding any physical based more complex abilities.
Mostly because it would create precedence.
If some hammer weilder can break legs or cripple why the hell other units cannot. And there would be unending list of abilities to add to pretty much all melee units.
So I think there needs to be better reason for adding ability - some unique training or special eqipment.

Re: Maulman

Posted: Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:54 am
by Gral.Sturnn
Maybe some sort of "stun" or takedown and no not all units need such things unless demed necessary. Each unit has its own thing.