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Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:23 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Image

A high speed ninja-alike zombie that uses its imense claws as drill to create underground tunnels to deliver a fatal blow to any unaware target from bellow.

In game it should be a 4 turns creature:
It can be:
- 2 forms unit, one for surface and one stealth for the underground.
Or
- Zombie with one ability to give it stealth that vanishes on attack.

Also, it can:
- Can produce a trap hole to kill anyone who falls on it.
- Can throws spiked/sticky bombs to distract foes while it does retreat to undergroud for another surprise attack.

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:29 pm
by ethanking5
I think that this is an amazing idea

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:54 am
by Alexander82
More than a normal zombie it might be more like an experimental unit (like flesh golems).

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:56 am
by Alexander82
Btw the hole seems too powerful for a 4 turn unit.

I think it might inflict damage to small units but I think it shouldn't affect big dized unit (it is very unlikely for a dragon, an ent or a giant to fall into a hole)

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:52 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
I suggested the cost as 4 just for a minor reference, as long as we can keep its caractheristics, the stats are open as always.

btw, is that possible to made? I mean make the trap be triggered by specific cathegories?

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:59 pm
by Alexander82
I have never made traps, so I don't really know

Anyway I don't think we should have an assassin unit that can kill more than once (human assassin has a pretty hard time to kill and it dies in the process)

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:34 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Well, this assassin should not make reference to the human's assassin, this isn't mean to be a one use unit like human one, but something more similar to AOS ninja, but with other techniques...

But if assassin is a exclusive name for oneshot units... Perhaps another name (idk about zombie ninja... For me it sounds ackward :lol: )

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:48 pm
by ethanking5
Zombie burrower

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:51 pm
by Alexander82
if it oneshot units act like an assassn so it should be compared to human assassin

if it doesn't dies when he kill one unit it is too strong

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:14 pm
by Puss_in_Boots
Let's go with tunnel corpse.

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:27 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
It should oneshot on the same way one orc lords kills lesser infantry... In other words... It should just have a good amount of base attack (so it can kill units with lower base Health as cheap units in one strike), and not like an unit that does simply delete other units no matter how strong they are...

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 pm
by Alexander82
that's a different kind of approach.

A trap that makes 20 damage oneshot a unit that has less than 20 hp.

I thought you wanted traps to kill any unit that steps on them

Anyway I would make it different

more than placing traps (something that is more for living creatures with a hunting background) it might be the trap itself (it unburrows and damage units that steps on him)

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:50 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Alexander82 wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:44 pm
that's a different kind of approach.

A trap that makes 20 damage oneshot a unit that has less than 20 hp.
Pretty much something like this i'm looking for it.
I thought you wanted traps to kill any unit that steps on them
No, a single trap that kills anything that triggers it would be too much broken, there would not be reason to put any other kind of trap on the game if there is one that can kill any kind of unit... So not viable aproach imo...
Anyway I would make it different

more than placing traps (something that is more for living creatures with a hunting background) it might be the trap itself (it unburrows and damage units that steps on him)
Some sort of mimics, mud like monsters or even decorative statues?

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:08 am
by Alexander82
I was thinking more like it becomes invisible but in that state can't act or move aside unborrowing

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:18 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
The zombie and the trap should be two distinct things, but both zombie and the trap should be invisible at some point, unless they became exposed... The zombie is an ambusher type unit, while the trap is a trap.

But i got you point, you suggesting it to be living trap right? But for this i want to create a simple unit with an ordinary trap... If the ambush fails, it will use those distracting bombs to get some time to escape and then try again... Also, i know that there are better candidates to became living traps...

I actually got many ideas for these living traps, but idk if most of them are possible to work if we attempt to keep their nature... Should i make posts about them anyway?

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:00 pm
by makazuwr32
Bombs for distraction, traps.... Isn't that too complex for a mindless walking (or running) corpse?

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:44 pm
by Alexander82
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:00 pm
Bombs for distraction, traps.... Isn't that too complex for a mindless walking (or running) corpse?
can't argue with that

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:52 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
I don't want to make wall-texts, but you should know that zombies does come in literally any size and shape... Without mentioning that they envolve and adapt much faster than any other kind of creature by itself, with a little push of an external agent, you should expect them to be much more than just dummy meat shields...

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:33 am
by Puss_in_Boots
What you might thinking of are probably t and g viruses from the Resident Evil series where they really DO come in all shapes and sizes. Then again they aren't technically zombies because they aren't reanimated, but infected and genetically modified to increase aggression and infectivity.

Zombies are best defined as reanimated organisms, so I find it most suitable that new zombie variants have a corpse for the 'zombie reaper' to transform. I suggest using the worker corpse, because they are difficult to get due to them being behind all enemy lines. This is also because I do not imagine "zombie workers" taking form, they wouldn't be able to arrange construction of any Undead buildings.

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:49 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Yeah i know that, and never considered the virus based zombie to begin with... (Since we still don't own such infecting mechanics to begin...)

But starting with the syntesis of the most classical definition of reanimated organisms seen in books, the Frankenstein, also with a little touch of mummies... To create many newer versions of such manufactured zombies... Unlike the outbreaking zombies that are just plagues, these can actually retain memories of the past life, muscular memories and even tatical knowledgements thanks to Evil Magic and Alchemy.... And on some rare cases, reproduce and envolve to new breeds by theirself... Once i read that some vampires families where actually descendents of such creatures and stopping to think... That might be possible...

So this one, with his nature, is just an example of what could be found slightly above of the base of the "piramid", while far away from the possible organisms found on the top...

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:56 am
by makazuwr32
Frankenshtein is different from normal zombies.
It even required different "reanimation" ritual.

In our game we have mostly only mindless zombies.
If you want soooooooooo bad assasin unit for undeads with bombs, traps and such - it will be better to choose something different from "zombies" and "skeletons".

Demons could have some assasin unit maybe, or veil fanatics.

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:24 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
No need for a new rise the dead spell (unless you want to), just add it normally on TC, and perhaps on a newer factory type building dedicated to these if you believe be worth of it...

Re: Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:44 am
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Changed the name of the topic to avoid missunderstandings about the nature of the unit...

Re: Assassin Zombie

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:24 pm
by Alexander82
DoomsdayDragonfire wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:52 pm
I don't want to make wall-texts, but you should know that zombies does come in literally any size and shape... Without mentioning that they envolve and adapt much faster than any other kind of creature by itself, with a little push of an external agent, you should expect them to be much more than just dummy meat shields...
I totally disagree with that.

A zombie is nothing more than a rotten version of the living creature it is raised from

Anything else is an action taken by a necromancer or a superior kind of undead.

Re: Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:19 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Yes, and no, bcz the title of zombie does apply to any walking corpse... The only rule is that they where brough back to life, and not necessarely that they are rotten-faded or dumb... They can be fresh-dead and smart... Retain skills, memories and even be emotional...

So the difference is the origin of the creature, that in this case, is a mochery of alchemy and magic (demon-forging), but can also happen with alchemy/science (Frankenstein monster), sorcery (vodoo alike magic-based ones currently used in-game)...

And also when the origin is a infection of plagues as viruses and parasicts (outbreaking zombies), chemichal related, "no room in hell", "japanizator" ray or something else...

In fact is a mess that a creature that comes from sorcery, or "patchworked" (this case), plagues, vampiric as ghouls or some other shares the same name... But since each doesn't have a specific naming distinction, but almost all aspects in common, they share the popular legendary name...

Re: Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:01 am
by Alexander82
The difference is actually the way the body is brought back

Zombies are made from a basic form of necromancy

For your reasoning both mummies and vampires should be considered zombies as well

Re: Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:41 pm
by DoomsdayDragonfire
Yes, but Only if you don't ignore the way that they were brought back, if you do that you basically have the same thing, walking corpses in different stages...

Not only as i mentioned b4, you can have zombies from science and alchemy aswell... But those don't have their respective names, so they share from the ones brought by magic since they are pretty much same thing...

The naming factor is the cultural origin... Zombies came from African tribes, Mummies came from Egypt and reflect their burial culture... While for Ghouls and vampires, they came from Persian/Islamic culture as meat eating corpses (ghouls), with the persian expansion, it arrived on Europe and later became a more refined and less instinct based corpses... Changing their habits to blood instead of meat... And more recently, turning into aristocratic vampires (with shapeshifting, powers and stuff)... So for me, in fact they are similar on the same way as apes are relative to humans...

Re: Ambusher Zombie

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:30 am
by Alexander82
As far as I known vampires were always considered sentient creatures and mummie were considered more powerful creatures (at least those risen from pharaos) risen from the pillaging of their cursed treasures (probably tales started as a deterrent for tomb raiders).

Of course, all of them are reanimated bodies but they are all different in both way of coming back from death and final result.

About other sources:
Let aside alchemy (it varies a lot from a setting to another), science risen zombies are generally more tied to videogames (biohazard is the most famous example) and movies, and it is generally an alternative for settings where the magic is not part of the world. In our game they wouldn't really fit.