Goblin pyromancer

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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:49 pm

As far as the unit on the original post goes, does it look​ ready to vote? We've pretty much rejected any changesso far, and I'd love to see Alexander's art here in game
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Alexander82
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:53 pm

Ok let's try summing up everything

Your basic idea Comments in red
Build time: 3 turns, shaman hut
Hp: 12 (barely out of kill range of his own fireball)
Attack:3 (flame weapon)
Armor: 0
Spell resistance: 40% (unlike most casters, he knows nothing about stopping other mages beyond setting them on fire.)
Movement: 3
Spells: Fire blast (no cd. arcane bolt, but also inflicts fire. The heat is intense enough to ignite even ordinarily non-flammable material, like flesh, and melt metal, so anything can catch fire, even flesh and blood units.) I don't know if it is possible to code a burning effect that affects non burnable units. It should be a totally new effect shaped like fire but that affects anything (like the black flames from amaterasu in naruto). It is not clear what this skill should hit (AOE or single target)
Fireball (range 2, so he's going to burn himself. At full life he should barely survive.) As far as I understand you want the fireball to always hit the pyromancer. This is hardly useful...
Summon fire elemental (sacrifice an adjacent unit to summon a fire elemental)

Fire elemental
Hp: 40
Vanishing 3
Attack: 5, burning weapon
Actions: 2
Movement: 3
Armor: 0/5
Spells: fire blast (cd 4, so one shot per elemental)

This spell is only useful if you are sacrificing a orc unit with 1 hp or such since it is really weak compared to orc units and it has vanishing
Aura: An aura is always active so it shouldn't have an automatic side effect otherwise this unit will be used less than the cannon fodder
I like the unit concept but I will hardly see it as a finalized unit.

There is not a great point in planning to put in a unit that is clearly worse than other unit already in game (an orc shaman has the same cost and it is far better). It is not that orcs lack something to vote so I'd work more on the unit itself before declaring it finalized.
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Sunrise Samurai
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:02 pm

No area damage, just a single target.

You're right that it seems a little weak compared to other orc units. Fireball​ should probably just have normal range, seeing as there really isn't much point in it hitting itself.

Aura: we pretty much rejected all the aura ideas I think. Maybe a simple flame weapon aura would work.

Fire elemental: yeah, I think I proposed that part before we had goblin spearman upgrades. Try these stats for it
40 hp
Vanishing 5
12 power, flame weapon, trample
Actions 2
Movement 4
Armor 0/5
Much stronger, and actually worth sacrificing an orc for.
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Alexander82
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:14 pm

What about no sacrifice but lower stats? I don't see sacrificing a unit for a elemental. Maybe a decent one but a longer cooldown
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:32 pm

The problem is that summons can be sacrificed to pay for green dragons. I've tried it by putting elf druids with troll shamans in map editor. As long as they belong to you and not just an ally, wolves are a valid sacrifice. That's why I included the sacrifice part, so that you don't have the option to pay for dragons with nothing but free units.
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Alexander82
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:54 pm

That's why a cooldown will avoid that. There are other way too exploit green dragons so a single summon won't be a great issue.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:54 am

Might work. Maybe the original stats, but cooldown 3 instead of a sacrifice?
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Alexander82
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:07 am

Yeah, something like that

Maybe we might call it simply minor fire elemental and unlock by techs new fire elementals
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:37 pm

What about just calling it a wisp instead, the elemental that is. By the way that tech would be nice and if this unit is only buildable in shamans hut then it would finally have a need to be built since all units in it can be made through tc's. I also can see some uses this guy can serve though I don't see the point of the fireballs range with that addition of goblin gernades...
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by General Brave » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:44 pm

Nice find, I haven't seen this thing before.
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:47 pm

What the Wisp? I find it in most every game I played, though I 've played and deleted so many that was can't remember the it names. This game is the longest one I've ever had due to it being interesting in units and gameplay.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by General Brave » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:49 pm

Wisp?
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:59 pm

They are like a fire spirit, kinda like a dryad is a forest one.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by General Brave » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:08 pm

We should have something like that.
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:45 pm

I don't know about you guys but I'm willing to give this goblin pyro some new abilities to add to the few he has already:
Fire wal:cool:3
Fire wall:
Van:3
Hp:15
Atk:8 burning weapon full damage on counter.
Rng:0
Sight:3
Arm:3
P.arm:9

Firestorm:cool:5-dmg:10 burning:aoe:4-requires research 8 turns.
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:48 pm

Add these to his other spells me you have:
Fireball
Fireblast
Summon wisp
Fire wall
Fire storm
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:58 am

Ok, so you could change forecast to arcane bolt because I have an image for that already. As for the goblin and wisp, plus the firestorm and firewall I'll add these to my list along with the Gnolls.
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:53 pm

Here's a wisp. Or what it looks like that is. Just pretend that goblin down their doesn't exist. :D
Attachments
Wisp.gif
Wisp.gif (1.83 KiB) Viewed 840 times
Wisp.png
Wisp.png (1.1 KiB) Viewed 840 times
add-ons$Rise_of_the_Elementalist$images$portraits$transparent$fire-elemental.png
add-ons$Rise_of_the_Elementalist$images$portraits$transparent$fire-elemental.png (81.15 KiB) Viewed 840 times
Goblin pyromancer.gif
Goblin pyromancer.gif (828 Bytes) Viewed 846 times
Last edited by Savra on Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 pm

Here's the fire wall.
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Fire wall.gif
Fire wall.gif (651 Bytes) Viewed 844 times
Fire wall.png
Fire wall.png (658 Bytes) Viewed 844 times
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by General Brave » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:43 pm

Did you see the other image?
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Savra
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:54 pm

Whoops, was thinking of a different unit that didn't have an image my mistake.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:58 pm

It would be nice if I could figure out how to have the animation without having to put it on white background. Every time it comes out on black background of I put transparency on.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:46 am

So before I do anything what needs images and is the stats finalized?
Alexander82 wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:53 pm
Ok let's try summing up everything

Your basic idea Comments in red
Build time: 3 turns, shaman hut
Hp: 12 (barely out of kill range of his own fireball)
Attack:3 (flame weapon)
Armor: 0
Spell resistance: 40% (unlike most casters, he knows nothing about stopping other mages beyond setting them on fire.)
Movement: 3
Spells: Fire blast (no cd. arcane bolt, but also inflicts fire. The heat is intense enough to ignite even ordinarily non-flammable material, like flesh, and melt metal, so anything can catch fire, even flesh and blood units.) I don't know if it is possible to code a burning effect that affects non burnable units. It should be a totally new effect shaped like fire but that affects anything (like the black flames from amaterasu in naruto). It is not clear what this skill should hit (AOE or single target)
Fireball (range 2, so he's going to burn himself. At full life he should barely survive.) As far as I understand you want the fireball to always hit the pyromancer. This is hardly useful...
Summon fire elemental (sacrifice an adjacent unit to summon a fire elemental)

Fire elemental
Hp: 40
Vanishing 3
Attack: 5, burning weapon
Actions: 2
Movement: 3
Armor: 0/5
Spells: fire blast (cd 4, so one shot per elemental)

This spell is only useful if you are sacrificing a orc unit with 1 hp or such since it is really weak compared to orc units and it has vanishing
Aura: An aura is always active so it shouldn't have an automatic side effect otherwise this unit will be used less than the cannon fodder
I like the unit concept but I will hardly see it as a finalized unit.

There is not a great point in planning to put in a unit that is clearly worse than other unit already in game (an orc shaman has the same cost and it is far better). It is not that orcs lack something to vote so I'd work more on the unit itself before declaring it finalized.
My suggestions for abilities were:
Summon wisp instead of elemental.
Firewall
Firestorm or you could call it Armageddon since it makes sense for the goblin pyromancer to have this spell but at the cost of needing research and high cooldown.

Since elves are getting a woodshaper elf with forest elements, undead are getting cryomancer with ice based elements, and humans be getting Arcanist with arcane elements plus a elementalist.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:51 am

Oh yes, and firestorm could cost the sacrifice of some units as well to use. Aoe, could be high and the cost could be 3 units with a 5 turn cooldown. Research 6-8 turns.
Firestorm:
Research:8 turns
Cost:3 units.
Cool:5
Rng:4-5 if you want him to be big by his own meteors fine with 4.
Aoe:4
Damage:10 burning.

This gives him a total of 5 spells, one being strong but costly. Very costly.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:54 am

I will prefer fire element bound to dwarves and for elves lighting element (there is no nature elements).

As for orcs maybe some earth shamans will be better.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:57 am

That's why I suggested a wisp, I knew fire elemental was going to humans and dwarves but the wisp is a weaker variant of the elemental.fitting for a goblin pyromancer. The Fire storm is an offensive spell with a high aoe,and a high cost.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:59 am

No i mean no pyromancers for orcs.
And definately not another offencive caster for orcs - they already get orc warlock unit with fireball, thunderstorm, magic missle, hell of pain by sacrifice.
Another caster will be too much for orcs.

And wisp is completely different being - it is spirit of the forest.
Specifically for not so genious persons
makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:24 am
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Savra » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:03 am

Wisps are fire spirits, actually their all round spirits, as for pyromancer he can stay for orcs because orcs have an uncanny nack for fire, dwarves work a lot with earth so it makes sense they have earth mages. Plus they still end up with the magma dragon and their ice variant for it.
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:12 am

No dwarves are living in snowy mountains so they are working with fire for warming.

And wisp is just a concentrated energy that took form of spirit. Wisp can't be elemental.
Specifically for not so genious persons
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Re: Goblin pyromancer

Post by Lynx Shafir » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:25 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:59 am
No i mean no pyromancers for orcs.
And definately not another offencive caster for orcs - they already get orc warlock unit with fireball, thunderstorm, magic missle, hell of pain by sacrifice.
Another caster will be too much for orcs.

And wisp is completely different being - it is spirit of the forest.
Agree.
Now wud b too much, such offensive caster with all that fire stuff.
Goblins are foul and dumb to cast such complex spell like firestorm.(AE spell more focus than a goblin holds) That requires more advanced arcane knowledge like humans caster (assuming that this is a cheap unit, human casters start at 6 cost and are weaker)
Fire wall and such elemental thing need some counter units first, so should wait till have some Base made for em.
Now is Op.


Spoiler Planning e a" ork mountain Shaman "-what summon ice spirit with wanishing" diff buffs........
(I kept for later when more content is added to others casters and defense for elf and humans) may I need to reconsider the concept.
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