Vtols

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:07 am

Priorities in the field do change really fast, and these machines are made to answer that... Armed to the teeth, a couple of VTOL's can make someone's life better, or worse depending on which side he is.

Starting with the Reaper drone. (Cheap but weak - Very good vs infantry and transports, can detect stealth)
Aog-hum-Reaper Drone.png
Aog-hum-Reaper Drone.png (933 Bytes) Viewed 1021 times
Unmanned Vtol carrying one pair of energy supplied rotary guns that transform flesh in dust... Thanks to its own cold fusion reactor, it can stay indefinitely in the Air without resuply...

This is the Patrol VTOL. (Reliable Gunship - Good vs infantry and vehicles)
Aog-hum-PatrolVtol.png
Aog-hum-PatrolVtol.png (1.33 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
Due "Ethical problems" with the AI that controls the Reaper Drone, the untrust on fully autonomous machines led to a new aircraft that as primary requirement, was requested to carry one pilot to always take the final decision instead of the AI, with a patrol role it should stay as longer as possible in the air, the result was a machine with massive versatility, doing much more than expected... Supplied by its own reactor, the omnidirectional fusion boosters and the new energy based weaponry, the result was a machine that could stay in the air forever...

This is the Multirole/Assault/Transport VTOL (Generalist is all aspects)
Aog-hum-MultiroleVtol-Flying.png
Aog-hum-MultiroleVtol-Flying.png (1.47 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
Aog-hum-MultiroleVtol-Hovering.png
Aog-hum-MultiroleVtol-Hovering.png (1.82 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
With the sucess of the patrol using its own fusion reactor, a larger version was required to logisthic, but it should be also used to trasport a small group of well armed soldiers, many bombs, or a bit of both...

This is the StratoFighter: (Expensive but powerfull - Good vs Air and Structures)
Aog-hum-StratoFighterVtol mk2.png
Aog-hum-StratoFighterVtol mk2.png (1.72 KiB) Viewed 1021 times
As the own name suggests, this isn't an ordinary fighter, it was created to totally ignore steath tentency by using a hipersonic engine to intercept the suspect plane and shoot it down instantly... When carrying bombs, if not passing straight over the enemy defenses at high speed, it can skyrocket to stratosphere and descend in high speed in the targeted area, avoiding any AA or Radars, rendering foes clueless...
(I know that Jump/Teleport isn't a thing yet, but as soon as it arrive, this guy should have it)
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Puss_in_Boots
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Re: Vtols

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:07 am

I love them, but can somebody tell me the difference between hover and flying?
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:17 am

Hovering is the name of the continuous movement that happens slightly above the ground... But for in-game, since this multirole is able to transport infantry, i believe that would be hard to pick anything far away from the ground... One analog was the I400 sub being able to pick units underwater...

So it is a change of stance/transformation, on the hovering, the plane would be near the ground, being vulnerable to ground units and speed would be reduced to 0 (or maybe 1)... But troops can eighter enter or exit from it safely... (Perhaps halve the plane base dmg aswell)

While flying, would have its full potential, but since it would be far away from the ground, no units would be able to enter or exit (maybe some can exit on special cases (and if that is possible)).
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Re: Vtols

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:42 am

Okay that makes sense now thanks!
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:53 am

So those essentially are few "helicopters" we wanted in anyway, a drone and a better fighter? I had bad felling about that wall of text but that's reasonable, I will consider those. Can you try giving some stats too?
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:34 pm

Ok, here it is my suggestion...

============

Reaper Drone

Cost: 3 or 4
Attack : 10 (energy + 100% vs infantry and light transports)
Atack range: 1 (no AOE)
Actions: 2
Sight: 4 or 5 (can detect stealth)
Speed: 3 or 4

Rest is optional...

============

Patrol VTOL

Cost: 4 or 5
Attack: 12 to 15 (energy + 100% bonus to infantry and vehicles)
Atk range: 1, no AOE
Actions: 1
Sight: 5 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 4 or 5

Rest is optional...

================

Multirole VTOL (flying)

Cost: 5
Attack: 12 (bonus vs non combat vehicles, transports and buildings)
Atk range: 1, no AOE
Sight: 5 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 4 to 5
Carry capacity: 1 or 2 (only non mechanized infantry)

Skill: Land/Takeoff - (Transform, same stats but)
- Carry capacity enabled, Speed down to 0 or 1, vulnerability to ground units.

Rest optional.

==============

Stratosfighter

Cost: 6 to 8
Attack: 5 (explosive dmg + 1000% bonus to aircrafts and buildings)
Atk range: 1, no AOE (at least for air, if possible to separate, you can add minor AOE to ground)
Actions: 1
Sight: 8 to 10 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 8 to 10

Skill: Hyper-Sonic Boost - (Jumps to targeted area)

Anything else: optional
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:02 pm

Hmm (finnaly felt like looking into that, sorry)
So you haven't wrote the hp and armor of those things. As well as you haven't clearly state (or you meant only the multirole one is?) if they are high flying (vurnable to ground) or not. I guess it's the case for the plane like ones, but is it the same for drone?
Those surivabilty based factors are crucial as heck cause of those things are supposed to have as much hp as multirole planes then the attacks and bonuses (I don't like the bonuses concept tbh) suggested (ground stuff wise) are too high for high flying units even with lesser speed imo.

Also I don't like the concept of a buildable stealth seeing drone for humans - technician can summon such, they kinda overlap. I suggested that kind of stealth seeing drone for reptilians tho (only capable of that). I propose that this one would be combat only.
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:49 pm

- Stats: Those i left open, so you can figure out what you think they can have to be balanced...

- Flying: Only the multirole will be low flying, the rest don't need to land actually (just to change pilot or reload bombs/missiles on the jet... Stuff we don't measure...).

- Bonuses: You can change those if you want.

- Drone: Well, technitians one you get only with them and for free, and it isn't weaponized, this one you will produce on the factories... Anyway, I was firstly thinking it to work as a "wingman" companion to the patrol vtols... But i thought that would rise its cost too much, so i separated both... So you can try to see whatever works better on it...
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:00 pm

DoomsdayDragonfire wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:49 pm
- Stats: Those i left open, so you can figure out what you think they can have to be balanced...
I will do what I think will work then.

- Flying: Only the multirole will be low flying, the rest don't need to land actually (just to change pilot or reload bombs/missiles on the jet... Stuff we don't measure...).
hm So all of the unit take 1 damage besides the multirole in one of forms, correct?
- Bonuses: You can change those if you want.

- Drone: Well, technitians one you get only with them and for free, and it isn't weaponized, this one you will produce on the factories... Anyway, I was firstly thinking it to work as a "wingman" companion to the patrol vtols... But i thought that would rise its cost too much, so i separated both... So you can try to see whatever works better on it...
Im not sure what you mean by the "patrol vtols wingmen". That it would summon them? Yeah that kinda sounds like a powerful thing. Also well this one in fact is different because it is armed, has no vanishing but isn't summoned, but I don't think it is required still. Imo an weaponized drone seems like enough.
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:36 pm

1st - Nice.

2nd - Yep.

4th - Summoned indeed, but would be really diffentent to work with... I was thinking that the drone could have leaving (1) while the patrol does own a small delay vanishing aura (1 or 2 range) to keep the drone as close as possible from its commander ship, otherwise it would lose the control of the drone (maybe turning neutral/agressive or just vanishing)... But was unsure how hark would be to make it work as intended... So a basic drone is ok for me.
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:43 pm

Acctualy now you said that... I need to check if that can be done easily. I think there is a way for a unit to turn neutral and maybe it could be hostile. That would be kinda cool.
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:08 pm

Ok going back to that, jeez it seems complex and not that necessary, those should be upgrade units or smt. Comments in bold.
DoomsdayDragonfire wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:34 pm
Ok, here it is my suggestion...

============

Reaper Drone

Cost: 3 or 4
Attack : 10 (energy + 100% vs infantry and light transports)
Atack range: 1 (no AOE)
Actions: 2
Sight: 4 or 5 (can detect stealth)
Speed: 3 or 4

Rest is optional...
Whaat 10 attack, two actions, high flying and a 100% bonus to infantry? That's 40 damage to infantry, ridiculous. Nothing deals such damage. If I were only change stats you left blank, it would have like 5 hp, for cost 4. Seriously, it's high flying. Do we want to have the AoWw planes superiority thing here again? I suggest 1 action, and maybe 50% bonus for like 10 hp 1/1 armor, seems more reasonable (less glass canon) for me, speed 4 sight 4 I'm not sure about cost.
============

Patrol VTOL

Cost: 4 or 5
Attack: 12 to 15 (energy + 100% bonus to infantry and vehicles)
Atk range: 1, no AOE
Actions: 1
Sight: 5 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 4 or 5

Rest is optional...

Ok so... With 12 attack and 5 cost, it would deal 6 damage less than multirole plane to other planes, yet 14 more damage to both infantry and vehicles. It's also 8 more damage to infantry and about the same against vehicles compered the 8 cost bomber that can't fight air opponents. With speed 4 it's slower by 1 than the bomber and 5 slower than the multirole. Well... I don't want to disregard the speed, but... How about we decrees the damage a bit? Unless you're fine with 20 hp 3/3 armor, or something about that? I thought we wanted them tankier. Oh, I didn't even mention that summon possiblity...
================

Multirole VTOL (flying)

Cost: 5
Attack: 12 (bonus vs non combat vehicles, transports and buildings)
Atk range: 1, no AOE
Sight: 5 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 4 to 5
Carry capacity: 1 or 2 (only non mechanized infantry)

Skill: Land/Takeoff - (Transform, same stats but)
- Carry capacity enabled, Speed down to 0 or 1, vulnerability to ground units.

Rest optional.
Ok yeah finally something rather reasonable I guess. For speed 4 and cost 5, I suggest 28 hp 4/4 armor (same as the multirole), and 50% bonus and 1 carry capacity.
==============

Stratosfighter

Cost: 6 to 8
Attack: 5 (explosive dmg + 1000% bonus to aircrafts and buildings)
Atk range: 1, no AOE (at least for air, if possible to separate, you can add minor AOE to ground)
Actions: 1
Sight: 8 to 10 (can't detect stealth)
Speed: 8 to 10

Skill: Hyper-Sonic Boost - (Jumps to targeted area)

Anything else: optional
Jump is possible now, yay! I guess I will just give it the same ability we want the hovercrafts to have, after I make it work like originally intended. I will abandon the idea for aoe - I think that if we really wanted it we could figure something out, BUT it would be inconsistent with other similar stuff and just flawed, just forced. 55 damage to aircrafts and buildings is a lot... I feel like cost 8, 10 speed and sight + like, 36 hp 4/4 armor might work?
I feel kinda bad for roasting some ideas but dang I haven't spent my time trying to prevent the ridiculous plane superiority you see in the AoWw reworking the system and the stats of planes to have this thing kinda break it. Even tho it's still flawed anyways probably.
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:24 pm

Well no problems, i just provided some guidelines so you can figure out the best option to them... Go ahead with changes.


The only thing i believe that must be settled is about stratosfighter atk power... We, instead of giving such bonus to it on the base... So we can set its base as Bomber or as Fighter, and have one ability with considerable delay... Eg:

We set it as bomber, so it keeps the same stats, but we:
+ add the 1 aoe range of 25%.
- remove its aa bonus entirelly.
+ add missile ability who has bonus against aa.

Or

We set it as Fighter, keeping almost the same stats but:
- remove bonuses to ground and reduce aa bonus to "some 3 digit" %.
+ add a fireball alike ability to deal with ground structures.
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Re: Vtols

Post by Midonik » Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:30 am

I think it would be fine as it is. Problem with abilities it that they won't effect units in tcs (if the ground attack is the ability) or won't let it counter (if aa attack is the ability). That's why I said trying to give it ground aoe would simply be flawed.
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Re: Vtols

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 pm

I guess we should see how it perform in game to make the adjustments needed to addapt it to the best aproach
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