Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint IMPLEMENTED

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Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Jan 02, 2020 8:40 pm

Here is a subsection of this thread, especially this post:
http://www.ageofstrategy.net/viewtopic. ... 502#p94122

From this the current logic is:
If u select a unit that still can move than
- you can not only click on its movement range tiles
- but u can click outside its range to place an animated waypoint (flag moving up down)
- you can relocate it by tapping again and again in this and that tile to set the final position
- and if u click on animated flag again it finalizes tge waypoint.

(This logic also triggers when u select multiple units and u click a tile - meaning you can set the waypoint for all units)

Deactivate unit selection in this new way:
a) pressing the back button
b) selecting another unit


here i made a little clumsy "flag" that animates a little to show that you are planning to put down the waypoint there.
please help me making a nicer animation of it or any other idea would be awesome.
waypoint_to_confirm.png
waypoint_to_confirm.png (1.9 KiB) Viewed 692 times
the meaning of the icon is: click me to confirm putting the waypoint flag here

the auto waypoint logic is in AOF and AOW already and in next update will be in AOS too.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:33 pm

I wrote here the current logic in first post.

Makaw told me he does not like this new way.

Please others give feedback or ideas to improve it.

Makaw said that the problem is that it is not good that deselecting a unit is not working by clicking to any other tile.

I have these ideas to solve it:
a) placing a little x beside the flag, and pressing it will deselect the unit
like this:
Image
b) making the logic that the animating flag can only moved by dragging it, so again clicking on any other tile will deactivate the unit selection as earlier
c) the animating flag can be re-placed only by longtapping some other tile, single tap will deactivate unit selection as earlier
d) the animating flag is not coming automatically, but if u click on "moving the unit in within its range (eg. on last tile of its range, than the flag appears beside it and if pressed than the waypointin gets turned on... uh, will be hard to understand what i wrote.
trying again: so
- u select unit
- possible move places shown by white boxes
- if u would click outside than unit selection would vanish as earlier
- but u click on a white box location instead (maybe only on perimeter?) and a "waypoint" flag appears near the clicked tile - so u can easily activate waypoint mode
- if u click that / or drag that flag to a desired location you entered waypoint mode (by clicking / or dragging it)
e) If u select a unit than a semi-tranparent red part will appear on the right side of the screen eg. 3-4 tile width and full height, if u click on it the unit selection will be cancelled so it is a floating "back" button.
like this:
Image
f) the animating flag only appears if u do a short longpress like 0,2 sec (it is not that direct, and maybe will lost all of the goal... but maybe..)
g) the animating flag on first appearance has a 0.5sec vanishing on it meaning it will remain as animating flag only if u longtap a little (as option "f") or if u click again on the "vanishing" form of the animating flag lol - lol :)
h) I think the best:
if u have unit selected
u click elsewhere and a circular bar starts growing from 0% to 100% (about 0.3 sec) until you lift up your finger
if bar have not reached 100% than unit is deselected
if bar reached 100% than a floating flag will appear and clicking elsewhere you move it, clicking on it confirming it, clicking on x beside it cancels it
this case all users will know that there is a feature to use and maybe very intuitive how and when to use it (imho)
here is a image how i thought around tapping:
Image

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:11 pm

I am asking for this feature to enable completely turn off because i personally am perfectly fine with micromanaging of all units.

But if you insist on making it constant than i would prefer b variant.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:58 pm

thanks, i wrote an option "d" but not so clear.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:27 pm

Yea hard actually.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:08 pm

ok i tried to write a little more detailed.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:20 pm

Yes d variant sounds good now. Probably best.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:46 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:20 pm
Yes d variant sounds good now. Probably best.
however i dont really like it - kills the point to make most movement (back unit movemetns) to be waypointed - thus reducing micromanagement

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:17 pm

a new "e" idea is there (i like it the best)

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:11 am

Still d is better.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:38 am

ok!
please others also take your votes or new ideas - thanks!

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:00 am

Main reason why i prefer d option over others is because it allows you to click anywhere (or close to that), not on special field or on special button to deselect unit.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:19 am

yes but i dont really like that in "d" case the waypointing needs an extra click to activate.
however the main reason of the whole change is to avoid wypoint button press and instantly move units via waypoints.

for me that is neede - only deactivating the waypointing mode would be the question.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:26 am

Than "e" variant will be fine if this mode can be deactivated (inoptions for example).

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 am

i try to avoid such switches (makes confusions for users and doubles time in later developement if we have too many options to update)

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:08 pm

It can be in some sort of "advanced options".

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:36 pm

B looks fine to me, it is difficult to adapt to the auto waypoint feature as it is now.
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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:14 am

When I may be a little late and it's a sole opinion additionally, but I think option a), b) and c) looks the best if I understand them right.
It makes unit management faster, like indented and at the same time allows for removing waypoint in case of mistake.
It may be that I just see some problems with other two options:
d) not only additional click is needed, also it's not so intuitive.
e) it would increase the need to move screen and/or zoom out.

Personally the most appealing would be mix of b) and c) options. So by my understanding:
Touching anywhere beside movement range creates the flag, longtap or back button deselects unit. Clicking another unit selects it. There is still waypoint button on the top of the screen needed for creating waypoint on tiles where another owned unit resides.
Once created, the flag can be moved by dragging it or tapping anywhere else outside movement range, but little x is shown in the corner of tile selected for waypoint which removes it when clicked. It can also be removed by longtouch on the flag.
With flag created already long touch anywhere else deselects the unit (leaving the waypoint created), the same with back button or clicking other unit.
Once waypoint is created single click on its flag again executes movement (setting flag again in the same tile).
Touching inside movement range when flag is created already doesn't remove it.
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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:01 pm

i would only prefer to make deselecting more intuitive, without selecting additional button and/or long tapping and such because it enlegthens time needed to take turn. Especially in case of really big armies (for example i have multiplayer game in which i have 473 units and i prefer to manage them manually, without waypoints, but it already takes about hour to take turn there. and with this feature my time for that increased by about 15-20% or about 10 additional mintues. 10 additional minutes just because of that additional click to deselect unit in dev version).

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Endru1241 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:29 pm

Wait a moment.
With "touch and delay" setting set as short it's 0.5s at max (on some phones 0.2s).

So by simple calculation You must select and deselect 1200 times to achieve 10 minutes. It's 2.5 additional selects for each owned unit on average.
I don't think it's standard.

Meanwhile 99% players are thinking current unit management is tedious and stratego is trying to do something with it.

When waypoint setting will be standard, easy to use and intuitive the game for most players will be more enjoyable.
Maybe when movement logic will be a little better - You'll start to use them Yourself.

Normally I support fully any ideas giving more options, but any amount of work for dev should be weighted by: (satisfaction from making it + additional advantages) / (amount of time needed * unwillingness to do it/mental tiredness created by doing it).
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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:38 am

I usually am trying to deselect on dev version with previous variant before i remember that i need to deselect with back button. And i am wasting this way about 1-1.5 seconds. Try to calculate how many time i am wasting in total. Especially this is annoying because i have an army of 160 workers who are settled in tcs and whom i do not need to move anywhere, only build, build, build, build and build.

As for waypoints - i am not using them for 2 reasons:
1. I am playing against really tough and experienced players and usually i need to rethink moves of many units each turn — you can't even predict where to move this or that unit even if it is in deep of your base;
2. Incredibly stupid moving ai for waypointed units that as result slows down my army by approximately 60%.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:26 am

struggle in games: i can upload an AOF vesion where all is switched off if u want.
wapoint movement: yes we ned to improve them - can someone make me sample maps where i can put a waypoint and see what is the problem with them? the thing i can not fix them is that i a dont know the exact problems, and the number of problems either.

we need to make "deselect" work easy and we shuold still TRY making the waypoint mode part of movements (hopefully in same way normal movements are used) - i will try to think / make Endru idea and maybe that will be a step ahead.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:10 pm

ok, UOS there is a version where u have a "cancel" button right next to waypointer

tell me what u think ! thankS!

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:10 pm

Aof as well?

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:48 pm

yes

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:50 pm

new f) and g) ideas in the list.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:43 pm

new idea, maybe the best(?) option "h"

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Endru1241 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:35 pm

H) seems to an equilibrium.
Perfect for speed of commands, intuitive, easy to use.
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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:07 am

Hm "h" sounds best for now.

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Re: Ease of managing the many units - auto waypoint

Post by Stratego (dev) » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:46 pm

ok here is my beta version for it.
please try.
uos 30

the longtap animation image also needs polishing, if anyone could make a nicer one - would be awesome!
needs to be a 192px height 5-8 image animation, can work with any number of frames.
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