The Phantom Update

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makazuwr32
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:09 pm

What about keeping its shield but decreasing range down to 1 and maybe decreasing anti-cav bonuses it has?

Not complete removal of its anti-cav role but making it not that big.

I like its image current and also removal of shield will mean that this phantom will loose its increased p.armor which i do not like.

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Alexander82
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:38 am

we can have one that is anti cavalry and another that has a big shield and it is not anti cavalry
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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 am

Well the current pikeman is perfect for what it is intended, so i think it's better to not mess there... Btw when you say "lose its shielder status". When did it had received such status? I mean... Just bcz it has a shield, doesn't mean that it is a shielder :lol: ...

Btw you are comparing it with bastion? Bcz bastion isn't meant to be anti-cav but a guard(ian), spear is usefull against calvary yes, but the idea is to keep foot foes at bay.

Also for its img, the shield of a bastion should be bigger and much more dense
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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:00 am

Here is a well know example.
Image
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Alexander82
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:49 am

Yes, spartans used spear and shield as well but:

- short spears are not particularly useful against cavalry

- halberds are used with two hands

So I prefer to remove the shield from the specific anti cavalry unit or change its weapon to a short spear and give it normal infantry bonuses.
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Alexander82
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am

DoomsdayDragonfire wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 am
Well the current pikeman is perfect for what it is intended, so i think it's better to not mess there... Btw when you say "lose its shielder status". When did it had received such status? I mean... Just bcz it has a shield, doesn't mean that it is a shielder :lol: ...
Cause we are planning specific abilities that will be given to shield users. Since at the time phantoms' stats were made a bit randomly (as most of other unit's stats we made some time ago), I'd like to make them in a more sub-like way, like we did with glade, imperials and other subs.

their survailability will be given from multiple resurrections and they will have a new shielder to compensate lack of that specific shield.
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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:23 pm

Alexander82 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:49 am
Yes, spartans used spear and shield as well but:

- short spears are not particularly useful against cavalry

- halberds are used with two hands

So I prefer to remove the shield from the specific anti cavalry unit or change its weapon to a short spear and give it normal infantry bonuses.
Well, first of all, phantom pikeman does carry a pikeaxe, not a halberd, the pole can be much bigger, but its size is just limited to the confortable canvas of the img.

The phatoms are not limited by muscles to hold their things, but only to its awakening enchant and the supply of magic used on said creation, for a person of flesh, it would be hard to swing these big weapons with a single arm, not even considering the weight of the armor, and there i agreed with the dual handling on this weapon. But since this is not the case with phantoms, they can and they do, while they are literally walls of steel, their mere existance is enough to defy gravity, but due mass-production reasons, the armors of such army are limited to use a small ammount of their supply just to keep them active and pieced together, so gear weight can and is ignored by them, meaning that: They are heavy and they can hold heavy stuff without problems unlike living beings.

So i don't like the idea to remove its shield, it is almost a trademark of this unit between anti-cav units, btw shortening the weapon would make it a poleaxe, which would overlap Bastion's weapon, and i don't think that is a good idea, but One big thing is that, pikeman is an offensive unit focused on cav, while bastion is an defensive unit, and unlike the pikeman, Bastion focus should be on the shield and its defensive capabilities.
Alexander82 wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:55 am

Cause we are planning specific abilities that will be given to shield users. Since at the time phantoms' stats were made a bit randomly (as most of other unit's stats we made some time ago), I'd like to make them in a more sub-like way, like we did with glade, imperials and other subs.

their survailability will be given from multiple resurrections and they will have a new shielder to compensate lack of that specific shield.
I'm aware of these shield augments, but the thing is that, the pikeman is not a shielder, or defender, its task is to take out calvary and it does perfectly, just bcz it has a shield doesn't mean that it is a defender/shielder. The basic Swordman of every race (beside elven one) has a shield and isn't considered a defender/shielder, most of the spear and axe throwers of every race own a shield and they aren't considered as defender/shielders, most of calvary and mounted units own a shield and even them aren't considered as such... So why the pikeman should be if there is the bastion who will be entirelly focused for these things?

Btw their stat are Not totally random, their stats where made around the ones of the imperials and glades of that time, Imperial sub got changed/bumped, glaves aswell, while these remained, tho, newer stats should follow more their natural traits and not be an imperial copy-paste, their visual and reanimation are two traits, but not the only ones. Imperials and glades are still living beings inside armors, these are not but THE armor itself just to begin...

Btw none complains about them being a sub, in fact, everyone is looking foward to it. :lol:
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Savra
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by Savra » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:25 am

Sooo, should I change the bastions weapon to the spear like that in the image and make shield look more robust? Or should I give it a mace instead of a flail and we could just give it the ability to stun enemies in hit. (Could have a percentage actually.) And still make shield look more robust.

I agree that the bastion is supposed to be more defensive based tank. I also agree on the phantoms ability to defy the laws of physics were wait is concerned (If they wanted to they could even walk across water) so wielding a polearm weapon wouldn't be too difficult for them when added a shield, if anything you could just decrease their range to 1 and just make them a defensive pikemen (like the glave sentinel). They won't be a shielder either way. Besides this we could just leave their armour at 3/6 were the shield just supplies an extra boost to their pierce armour, same with normal shielder being that their health could make up for it.


As for stats I think they match perfectly for the sub race, maybe with the new phantom upgrades you could lower the shielders base hp down to 60 and leave the 70 up for the final upgrade which I presume is golden form.

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Alexander82
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Re: The Phantom Update

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:58 am

Just remove the shield from the pikeman, about the bastion I think that a mace or a flail will both work well and being a dedicated shielder it will be fine with a bigger shield.
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