Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

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L4cus
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Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:55 pm

Legionary rebalance:
Cost 4
Hp 25
Attack 10
Range 1
Armor 3/2
Speed 3
Sight 4
Same bonus

Throw pilum
Power 7
Range 3
Coldown 1 turn
+25% v archer, mounted, foot meele
+50% v mounted archer, shield bearer


Eagle Legionary (variant)
Cost 5
Hp 26
Attack 11
Range 1
Armor 4/3
Speed 3
Sight 4
Same bonus

Aura: Legion Eagle
+1 attack to roman units
Range 4


Late Legionary (upgrade)
Upgrade Cost 5 turns
Hp 28
Attack 11
Range 1
Armor 5/3
Speed 3
Sight 4
Same bonus

Throw plumbata
Power 5
Range 2-4
Coldown 1 turn
+25% v archer, mounted
+50% v light and medium foot meele, mounted archer, flying
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godOfKings
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by godOfKings » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:19 am

i thought centurion carries the eagle?
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L4cus
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:44 am

Actually, others officers with less men at his comand had at their side the eagle standard holder. The officee wasn't it. There was another person who did that


I am also thinking on Legio Adiutrix, a legion made of marines
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SirPat
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by SirPat » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:03 pm

The roman eagle bearer is known as the Aquilifer
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L4cus
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Fri Mar 20, 2020 9:12 pm

The aenator sprite could be usefull..
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DreJaDe
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by DreJaDe » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:00 am

I think this Romans soldier are too expensive and hard to make as an army. Maybe add some Levy troops that would only cost two turns with the same bonus as a normal Romans Unit like that shield wall buff

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:12 am

DreJaDe wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:00 am
I think this Romans soldier are too expensive and hard to make as an army. Maybe add some Levy troops that would only cost two turns with the same bonus as a normal Romans Unit like that shield wall buff
Actually, legionary becames obsolet after upgrading foot knight
It should have a upgrade to be viable
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godOfKings
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by godOfKings » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:23 pm

They can have 12 atk, 4 speed, 5/4 armor without any upgrade, and increase to 14 atk and even more armor eventually
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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L4cus
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:39 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:23 pm
They can have 12 atk, 4 speed, 5/4 armor without any upgrade, and increase to 14 atk and even more armor eventually
That's too op. 10 attack is ok, is the same than foot knight
Even his hp is ok
But when foot knight gets his upgrade, he becomes much better than legionary.
I think a middle point between "Heavy Foot Knight" and "Elite Foot Knight"

Heavy foot kngiht stats
Hp 27
Attack 12
Armor 5/3

Elite foot knight stats
Hp 31
Attack 14
Armor 6/4

In addition to this, they have healing bonus

I think "Legionary" stats should be
Hp 28
Attack 12
Armor 5/4

And his "Throw Plumbata Ability"
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DreJaDe
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by DreJaDe » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:48 pm

In the point of making Legionaries as strong as the foot knights, I will disagree. From what I see a knight will be more highly trained than a Legionnaire. Both are heavily armed but from what I know, knights have better armor than a Legionnaire considering a Legionnaire have a proper armor as uniform while a knights armor is customized.

In that plumbata thing, having cooldown of 1 is OP. They're point is not to be the skirmishers in the game but a melee soldier. A skirmish would have like 4 javelin with him and if I will compare it to the Legionary I think they would only have 1 per battle so I will suggest to make it atleast have 3 or more cooldown.

Also pls no bonus but just a fixed amount of damage or if you really want it make it atleast have bonus only with shielded units.

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godOfKings
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by godOfKings » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:34 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:23 pm
They can have 12 atk, 4 speed, 5/4 armor without any upgrade, and increase to 14 atk and even more armor eventually
I meant currently they can ALREADY get these stats using just aura bonus without needing any upgrad, with a single centurion they already become as good as foot knight upgrade

And wat is healing bonus?
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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L4cus
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:46 pm

About armor, i agree with u. But, leagionaries were also well trained, and had a hard discipline
Legionaries armors changed as time passes. Late empire legionaries used scaled armors.
Thats y i say they should have and upgrade. In that way, the dont become useless at middle and late game.
About plumbata, i suposse i made a mistake about that. Agree with no bonuses and higher coldown.
Beside that, plumbata was lighter than pilum.
A late legionary was able to carry with 4 to 5 of them
While a plumbata skirmisher was able to carry more than 8 in bags.
Maybe 3 turns coldown
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:37 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:34 pm
godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:23 pm
They can have 12 atk, 4 speed, 5/4 armor without any upgrade, and increase to 14 atk and even more armor eventually
I meant currently they can ALREADY get these stats using just aura bonus without needing any upgrad, with a single centurion they already become as good as foot knight upgrade

And wat is healing bonus?
Foot knights can have 12 attack, 5/4 armor and even more attack with effects like high morale. And thats without upgrades. With them they can have 16 and more attack, 8/6 armor.
Heal bonus is on unit description. I have tested it, it is a multiplier to healing effects on it. In this case it is 2.0
If a healer with 10 heal rate heals a foot knight he will recover 20 hp
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Squirrel5555
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm

That's good, knights should be more powerful than some roman legionnaire :D
If anything you should be balancing the legionnaire around men at arms :)

DreJaDe
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by DreJaDe » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:41 pm

Squirrel5555 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm
That's good, knights should be more powerful than some roman legionnaire :D
If anything you should be balancing the legionnaire around men at arms :)
Not necessarily I think. Byzantines wouldn't last that long if they're not as good as the knights in some way.

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:12 am

DreJaDe wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:41 pm
Squirrel5555 wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:22 pm
That's good, knights should be more powerful than some roman legionnaire :D
If anything you should be balancing the legionnaire around men at arms :)
Not necessarily I think. Byzantines wouldn't last that long if they're not as good as the knights in some way.
Thats also true. But im not sure if those who keep secure the empire were actually legionaries
Anyway, we could make the legionary upgrade about the adecuation to dacian wars
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:20 am

Well at that point it wasnt legionnaires, iirc.

Since legionnaires are already arguably as powerful as unupgraded foot knights, with the help of a centurion more powerful, and dont need any upgrades (i think) to get this powerful, there are two things i think you could do:

1) Slightly adjust stats/cost of centurion or legionnaires to make them a more attractive option compared to going into foot knight (which you also need to upgrade to be at the same level as a legionnaire with centurion

Or

2) Revamp legionnaires and praetorians to have cost and stats based around men at arms, with the centurion still being able to buff them, as imo legionnaire shouldnt be able to stand up to a knight

But thats just my opinion ;)

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:29 am

Squirrel5555 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:20 am
Well at that point it wasnt legionnaires, iirc.

Since legionnaires are already arguably as powerful as unupgraded foot knights, with the help of a centurion more powerful, and dont need any upgrades (i think) to get this powerful, there are two things i think you could do:

1) Slightly adjust stats/cost of centurion or legionnaires to make them a more attractive option compared to going into foot knight (which you also need to upgrade to be at the same level as a legionnaire with centurion

Or

2) Revamp legionnaires and praetorians to have cost and stats based around men at arms, with the centurion still being able to buff them, as imo legionnaire shouldnt be able to stand up to a knight

But thats just my opinion ;)
Historicly there was a progress. At dacian wars, legionaries fought against two handed dacian falxman. To deal with them, the lorica segmentata was reinforced, becoming harder and the arm was covered with an armor to protect it from cuts.
Maybe, only more hp and armor
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Squirrel5555 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:10 am

Of course it was not a sudden change :)
Still legionnaries shouldnt be able to stand up to knights, simple as that. With far more advanced equipment (atleast from the legionnare shown in the game) and probably lessons since childhood with personal instructors, it shouldnt even be a discussion who is more powerful.

Which is why im surprised legionaires( not even praetorians, just regular legionaires) are as powerful as foot knights. Their stats and cost should be adjusted, taking this into account

If legionaire was based around swordsmen/ men at arms, upgrades could be justifiable and centurion buffs would make them competitive enough
Then praetorian could also be based around foot knight stats and cost making the Roman units a possible alternative for your front line with both stronger, costlier units and cheaper units with centurion making them different enough from other units

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by godOfKings » Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:08 am

L4cus wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:37 pm
godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:34 pm
godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:23 pm
They can have 12 atk, 4 speed, 5/4 armor without any upgrade, and increase to 14 atk and even more armor eventually
I meant currently they can ALREADY get these stats using just aura bonus without needing any upgrad, with a single centurion they already become as good as foot knight upgrade

And wat is healing bonus?
Foot knights can have 12 attack, 5/4 armor and even more attack with effects like high morale. And thats without upgrades. With them they can have 16 and more attack, 8/6 armor.
Heal bonus is on unit description. I have tested it, it is a multiplier to healing effects on it. In this case it is 2.0
If a healer with 10 heal rate heals a foot knight he will recover 20 hp
Dude go check the foot knight stats, basic footknight has 22 hp, 10 dmg, 4/3 armor
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by L4cus » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:58 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:08 am
L4cus wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:37 pm
godOfKings wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:34 pm


I meant currently they can ALREADY get these stats using just aura bonus without needing any upgrad, with a single centurion they already become as good as foot knight upgrade

And wat is healing bonus?
Foot knights can have 12 attack, 5/4 armor and even more attack with effects like high morale. And thats without upgrades. With them they can have 16 and more attack, 8/6 armor.
Heal bonus is on unit description. I have tested it, it is a multiplier to healing effects on it. In this case it is 2.0
If a healer with 10 heal rate heals a foot knight he will recover 20 hp
Dude go check the foot knight stats, basic footknight has 22 hp, 10 dmg, 4/3 armor
Those are stats after blacksmith upgrades
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Squirrel5555
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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Squirrel5555 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:06 pm

After blacksmith upgrades *facepalm*
Dont those also effect legionnaires?
Even if they dont, thats A LOT of turns investment in research to make foot knights better than legionnaires, which are already stronger than base level footknights WITHOUT any upgrades

Which makes it balanced, you can either choose to have an immediatley stronger unit (legionnaire)
Or choose to invest in foot knight upgrades which eventually lead to a stronger unit (not counting centurions buffs into the equation)

I still think legionnaires should be balanced around men at arms, they are the basic front line unit for the romans

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by godOfKings » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:32 pm

But they have higher hp and armor than man at arms, also get less damage from archers
There is no place for false kings here, only those who proves themselves to b the true kings of legend, or serves under me

For I watch over this world looking for those worthy to become kings, and on the way get rid of the fakes and rule over the fools

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Squirrel5555 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:35 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:32 pm
But they have higher hp and armor than man at arms, also get less damage from archers
What I meant about balancing them around men at arms is that the legionnare stats and cost should be completely reworked to be similar to men at arms current stats and cost.

For example make legionnaires cost 2 and about as strong as broadswordsmen and still gets stat buffs from centurion. That should make it quite balanced

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Re: Roman legionary mod, variant and upgrade

Post by Endru1241 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:54 pm

Total rebalance is not a good idea.
Neither is an upgrade - especially that strong.
Legionaries were made with a purpose - they are weak by themselves (comparing to cost), but strong in group with proper leadership.


Eagle legionary should rather be foot centurion.

On the other hand Aquilifer would be a good idea - cheaper unit with roman aura boost (without morale boost).

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