Golias & Goliath Suits

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godOfKings
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by godOfKings » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:35 pm

While ur reasoning is correct, my reasoning was simpler, missiles have higher payload then rail gun ammo (because ammo needs to b light to actually move so fast)

Jet plane fly faster than sound and this speed already gives missiles very high armor penetrating strength, coupled with the higher payload they r just more effective (against large targets Cuz smaller targets r harder to hit at high speed)

Rocket launcher simply carries huge rockets that can blow away even the toughest of concrete bunkers

Most importantly, these r specialized against large targets so must have this advantage over rail guns for gameplay purpose
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm

I'm aware of that, and agree with it, btw, just to clear, the current railguns don't use any sort of explosive or payloads on the projectiles, that's not needed (it was developed to actually avoid that), since the creation of those apfsds projectiles, the military noticed that most of the vehicle/ship casualties were bcz its own ammo stockpiles was destroyed, and yeah, most of military stuff does carry a lot of explosives :lol: , and since almost no armor could defend against those projectiles, the engineers thought on making a weapon that doesn't use any explosive, so even if damaged, the unit would not be totally incapacitaded, but also keeping the same or better results as apfsds, then they decided to develop the railgun...

Also, the apfsds projectile is made mostly with the tip of depleted uranium, which is a pyrophoric material (i think it ignites at 55°C, and the usual heat on impacts is around 2000°C) so on the impact, it is ignited and burn everything on its way, thus by destroying the stockpile of ammunition, it does destroy the target by inside, killing the crew without any chance of survival...
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:57 am

Ok, was typing a cool and long text about these units, but when i pressed submit, had to log in again and lost the text, so this time i will just post a brief comentary about them...

First made some changes on the basic AMP.
Goliath AMP.png
Goliath AMP.png (1.32 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
Made a coilgunner version
Goliath coilgunner.png
Goliath coilgunner.png (1.33 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
Made a less armored scout version with doggo companion, he uses a pistol and a reinforced gauntlet, also he got a pack of extra sensors and scanners on his back to help him on his duty.
Goliath Scout.png
Goliath Scout.png (1.65 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
Made a shock trooper version for masses control (i thought on a re-militarized version of a civilian goliath), as weapons, i tought on a peper spray, but a cannister would look stange, so it is just a handgun, he also carries a melee weapon (was unsure what to put, so put a standard sword on him for now), he also carries a energy assisted shield.
Goliath ST Pst.png
Goliath ST Pst.png (1.3 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
Goliath ST Swd.png
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by General Brave » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 am

Those things are quite huge.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:09 pm

General Brave wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:22 am
Those things are quite huge.
Not that much, it is very compact actually, they are big enough to surround the soldier with a decent amount of protection, around 4 to 5 Meters high. And their weight just as heavy as a popular car (1 or 2 tons).

Anyway. Suggestive stats. Edit: Version 3

================

Goliath AMP (Mechanized infantry)

Cost: 4
Hp: 55
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 15/0/0 (50% bonus against infantry, 100% against large infantry) - Overall 15 dmg
physical/energy/chemical Armor: 5/5/5
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 3 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 1 speed on mountains)
Sight: 4
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: None

=====

Golias AMP (M.I. siege arty)

Cost: 4
Hp: 55
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 8/10/0 + burning effect (heavy incendiary cannons, 200% bonus against structures) - Overall 18 dmg
physical/energy/chemical Armor: 5/5/5
AOE: 1
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 3 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 1 speed on mountains)
Sight: 4
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: Mortar shoot (unit gains +2 range in the next turn, 2 turns cooldown)

=====

Goliath coilgunner (M.I. Anti-Vehicle)

Cost: 4
Hp: 55
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 15/0/0 (150% bonus against vehicles) - Overall 15 dmg
physical/energy/chemical Armor: 5/5/5
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 3 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 1 speed on mountains)
Sight: 4
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: None

=======

Goliath Scout (scout and support)

Cost: 4
Hp: 50
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 10/0/0 (punch) (100% bonus against structures) - Overall 10 dmg
physical/energy/chemical Armor: 3/3/3
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 4 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 1 speed on mountains)
Sight: 5
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: Summon Pawn dog,
Pistol shoot (10 energy dmg, 2 range. No cooldown)

Pawn dog (supportive supporter for the support)

Cost: 2
Hp: 30
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 10/0/0 (bite) (50% bonus to infantry) - Overall 10 dmg
physical/energy/chemical Armor: 1/1/2
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 5 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 2 speed on mountains)
Sight: 5
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: None

======

Goliath Shock Trooper (Big target a.k.a. Tanker)

Cost: 5
Hp: 55
physical/energy/chemical Attack: 10/0/0 (100% bonus to infantry) - Overall 10 dmg
physical/energy/chemical armor: 7/7/4
Range: 1
Actions: 1
Speed: 3 (same modifiers as basic infantry, but 1 speed on mountains)
Sight: 4
Can't capture tc, buildable in barracks.
Abilities: Pistol shoot (10 energy dmg, 2 range. No cooldown)
Last edited by DoomsdayDragonfire on Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:23 pm

U obviously underestimate the distance covered by each tile, even guns and lasers have only 1 range
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:28 pm

Some have two, but the heavier, placed on ground ones. Because they lack speed. Not sure if it's good idea to add it to an high hp 3 speed units, I will need to check the stats later.
Wait, why a dog that can only bite has 2 range? Like it's a hundred kilometres or something like that, you definitely went overboard.
Two types of damage at once is impossible (did you freaking saw a unit that does both normal and price damage in AoS/AoF? No? Well that's because it would need Daniel's coding, and tbh wouldn't waste time on that.) Reduce to one type.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:07 pm

U can make incendiary weapon simply like fire ball ability with burning effect (may b no area damage)
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:48 pm

Midonik wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:28 pm
Some have two, but the heavier, placed on ground ones. Because they lack speed. Not sure if it's good idea to add it to an high hp 3 speed units, I will need to check the stats later.
Wait, why a dog that can only bite has 2 range? Like it's a hundred kilometres or something like that, you definitely went overboard.
Two types of damage at once is impossible (did you freaking saw a unit that does both normal and price damage in AoS/AoF? No? Well that's because it would need Daniel's coding, and tbh wouldn't waste time on that.) Reduce to one type.
Did ~Copy>pasta~ since the first one and forget the doggo range :lol: it was meant to be 1, glad u noticed that :lol:

Well, i did put 1 extra range on gunners bcz, firstly, to have a difference from the melee/smaller ones, also as the own AMP name suggests, it is a plataform that does amplifies all caracteristics of the soldier (the suit make the wearer be faster, stronger, have a bigger sight, increases their effectiveness range in battle, the mobility range, endurance/resistance range, a suit that enables even the most pacific person into a tireless alien killing machine p̶r̶o̶b̶a̶b̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶o̶w̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶s̶ ̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶... But i think such thing would be too much powerfull for the intended cost, so i already reduced that, making them look more to a bulky mech, but it seens their stats still need adjustments...), also, by having big guns that complemented by the armor's abilities (that is obviously more effective than smaller guns of the minor infantry a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶̶̶u̶̶̶n̶̶̶s̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶ ̶̶̶b̶̶̶i̶̶̶g̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶s̶̶̶ ̶̶̶t̶̶̶h̶̶̶e̶̶̶y̶̶̶ ̶̶̶a̶̶̶r̶̶̶e̶̶̶, things are intended to go farther than the usual, so thats why i limited to only +1 extra range...

-Edit: btw, why not make a tech for the AMP gunners to get +1 range for a 8 turns cost upgrade? Everyone will end happy :lol:
-Edit 2: that actually made me think... Why not make many upgrade boosts on them later on to actually represent the amplifying characteristics?

About dmg types. I know, i remember having such discussion around some time ago, right now we can't since Daniel is busy working on other stuff, but he said that wans't impossible to do, he would only need to know exactly how to "put the idea on the paper" (he actually says this a bit often :lol: )... But since there is plans for us to get a 3rd "armor" option, adding 2 attacking options is totally logic step since things here aren't based only on melee or ranged like aos/aof, but as more abrangent "damage types", as physical/energy/chemical (it reminded of that propose of elemental dmg for aof, that is somewhat similar to this...), like you said earlier, reptilians are masters of laser and stuff, letting players know clearly e̶x̶a̶c̶t̶l̶y̶ ̶w̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶o̶t̶ what kind of damage it will cause is a thing, and will provide dozens os benefits in future... Anyway, i think it is better to me make some notes for future references.

Also 8 physical + 10 energy is translated as 18 overall dmg, 10 eng dmg bcz as far as i remember, Heat weapons like fire based ones were put on the same category of energy for "convenience"
godOfKings wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:07 pm
U can make incendiary weapon simply like fire ball ability with burning effect (may b no area damage)
I was thinking on a thing that enables burning effect just on the epicenter of the explosion, something new that could be used as base for like radiaton of nukes and stuff like that (idk if we have such thing already, probably not)... but i think the good old fireball can also work with some edit :lol:
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:49 pm

I'm not sure if having more armor and hp than a tank makes any sense for a such mech. After all, legs and basically human like shape really are flawed in terms of endurance, comparing to tanks... But then there would be no sense in making those, given their speed is lower.
Eh... How about we lower armor of basic to 3/3/3, hp to 43, add him + 1 range (they are higher than tank's turrent probably...), keep 4 sight (most units has sights of their movement, not +1, but since they are higher...). Now, they have higher range and hp than a tank, lower armor, attack (a bit I think, tho tank can use charged beam), movement (but can move on mountains). They are build in barracks that are eaiser to build. Compared to HAP (same cost), they have better attack, range, armor, hp, sight... But they don't have many grenades, also 1 action and no anit infantry bonus, also can't capture tcs. . Edit rest of units accordingly to that.
Do you agree?
Last edited by Midonik on Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Wait they can't be bulid in tc? I think they should.
Also for pistol, one range.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:21 pm

Well, taking note that they are tanks under legs, and they were suposed to be faster than basic infantry, it would be a really broken unit, so i halved it to make some sense in gameplay... i think just boosting beam tank health would increase a lot its value... but is not like i can argue too much at it right now, and also, your suggestion kinda reach the middle term of it, so i'm ok with that.

Btw, it is a too much specialized infantry to allow tcs to build, i would rather spam them on tcs than tanks actually (and probably AI too), so let them be in barracks is better for balance imo.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Oh wait, HAP trooper is only in barracks. Then they too.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:20 pm

Ok, could you edit the all stats according to that? Or you don't have time? Well, at least attach the images to the stats cause I feel lost. Can't tell which image is to wich stats.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:41 pm

Also... Can they be strictly robots? That would give them serious advantage over the infantry and tanks in some situations. As only way to convert them would be hacking that some races that would had convert on flesh and blood won't have. This way they would be more useful.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:52 pm

Attempted to edit few times in 3 different days, had to put my login in all times, so got tired to change that again (i can't just copy~pasta on this device... Sorry).

Well they are all relativelly in order, and their img names do relate to the stats, beside the imgs of golias and the big dog for scout that are in the first-post page, the rest are on this second one.

Idk, that would be nice, but probably no, i would like to see them, but with another pack of imgs, transform these into full mech would change the essence of the imgs, right now, they are basically full pressurized exosuits, as they are, hacking them would not have much effect as they are not autonomous since it needs someone to drive them, also, being machines they would need to be moved to another category, and also, moved from barracks to the tank factory... Characteristics enough for an entire set of new units with new stats.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:10 am

The point is that having a set of units for every infantry, robots, and between, is not something I would like to have. There is no point in having so many units (or even unit packs) with sort of similar stats and all. I would prefer to restrict the number of units a bit.
Hm. Well idk.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by godOfKings » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:17 am

i dont mind more units with more complex gameplay

for example robots r immune to chemical attacks and can withstand huge explosion damage (as long as they r small enough to not get directly hit like from missile for example)

while infantry r immune to emp and stun damage as well as gets less damage from at weapons like railgun or laser beam (as they get no bonus damage)

and infantry inside robot suit r immune to hacking attempt (conversion attempt) but can b mind controlled (by race specialized in psionic magic)
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by godOfKings » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:20 am

but in this case some of doom's units do seem redundant like having a scout to punch enemies or attack with pistol, and scout dogs, wen the futuristic gadget for scouting is drone...

instead of having a specialized robot for every kind of units, i guess a simple anti-infantry and anti-light vehicle/tank robot unit is enough, a single robot can carry many different guns from small machine guns to bigger explosive cannons etc.

mainly this robot suit would b more defensive than basic infantry, has higher physical and chemical resistance (may b low energy resistance) and 2 types of guns, one light and good against infantry, and another a little heavy and good against light vehicle and tanks (like the reptilian hovercraft infantry)

both dealing physical damage so simply bonus will need to b modified
Last edited by godOfKings on Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:24 am

The thing with punching is for different attack type I guess. Maybe give him some melee weapon or something idk. And well they in fact seem a little to fancy. We can give him the technician drone instead maybe?
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:15 pm

Well, everytime i attempt to explain why i had put a characteristic on an unit, it ends on a wall text, that when finished, when i submit, had to log again and lose what i typed... I will be as short as possible here.

Drone being the future in kinda correct, but i will explain the meaning of the dog in the scout.

P.a.w.n. stands to "Personal Armored Walking (radar) Nodule".

Firstly, i was thinking on a small drone, but it would not stand the heat of frontline, and that would be too mehhh... So i thought on something that would be usefull in more than scouting. Then came the dog.

The thing is, more than often that frontline squads lose the comunication to their superior commanders due "X" factors as weather, ecm or something else, blind units are often misguided and a cut in comunications situation always lead to unknow behavior as friendly fire... Things that result in bad performance, scouts units receive an improved pack of sensors to extend their usefullness, but that isn't enough sometimes, so they receive the P.A.W.N. That works as radar nodule inside the field of operations... A "workbench" of comunications to extend even more scouts scanning.

The later idea was to give it a transform skill, i actually had an img for it, but since i could not edit, lead to this missunderstanding. It would work work as watchtower when unpacked, spotting all invisible units in a long range (8 range)

Well, considerating that i would like to put a sniper on scout hands, a pistol is quite ok for me considerating the other functions for it... But if you insist i can put it xD.

And a technician was planned aswell, but would be a unit to add in future, he would had skills as deploy sentry turrets and mines, capture towns (the only one allowed) and also fix other goliaths in the field...
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:30 pm

(Copy text before submitting if having such problems, unless you figured that out)
*ekhem* http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... 255e1116b9 *ekhem*
Well the dogs has many moving parts. Moving parts = higher costs. Moving parts = less reliable = higher maintenance cost & logistical pain. A drone is capable of seeing invisble units and I guess would be cheaper, able to move in all terrain, and while in fact it's easy to kill, it's not that you need it for something else than quick look into enemy's lines for info about units (also stealth ones), terrain etc.
About the pistol, I think gok was talking more about how sensful is it to have a punch on unit that has pistol too. The fact that damage is the same is a bit wierd I guess.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:32 pm

Wait wait wait what? That scout can summon them with no cooldown and they have no vanishing? No-no. Definitely op. If anything they can have that as a one time spell.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:00 pm

Well, it doen't work like that but if the movings parts is the problem, then those "cheap" MAGMA uav jets with moveless parts would be the best sidekicks for this one. The cost is based on how much technology you use to create something (from research to mass production), and a thing that fly with jets without any moving parts is none close to cheap and much harder to build than convencional way of a standard uav.

Ofc no, as dog, it will have 2-3 turns b4 vanish, it will depends on how much you will make the spell cooldown. Unless you want to remove the vanishing and the cooldown for it.
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:58 pm

They should be mend able, not heal able, right?
Also, I will make a topic for each to make it easier to disscuss. Btw, avoid such lists at all cost, they only work to disscuss in general context, for example whole race basic units, all naval/space units of race, a concept of unit pack - otherwise it's a huge no no. Also later you should make a topic for each to discuss it in details.
Well it's part of why AoF forum got a bit messed up lately so let's avoid that please.
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its sci-fi themed: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=135
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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:58 pm

Yes, it should be mend able.

Well, isn't this a concept of unit pack? :lol: Btw, i do understand what you mean with that. Sometimes, long treads get messed with so many posts, so subtopics are needed to reorganize them.

I just like to put all content related of a single subject inside the same topic to be easier to find unless it heads to a total new thing, and i attempt to cover any incoming questions with "how", "what" or "why" and such things is like that... But ok, will try to avoid these "combo topics" for now on.
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Midonik
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:24 am

Well yeah, it was good for general concept, but once we get into details of each unit it would be a bit messy.
Also I need your opinions here: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... 3468c9809d.
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its sci-fi themed: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=135
All help will be welcome.

Fielderan Crown's Great Hetman
http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... =66&t=4729

Midonik
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:07 pm

@DoomsdayDragonfire Could you make decent description for all of them? I don't feel like making them, and you are the one with vision of them. Minimalise the technical details (don't say enough to make a casual user get bored to death or have any doubts about the sense and realism [heh] of our game) and aim for gameplay info.
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its sci-fi themed: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=135
All help will be welcome.

Fielderan Crown's Great Hetman
http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... =66&t=4729

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DoomsdayDragonfire
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by DoomsdayDragonfire » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:14 pm

Ok, should i put their descriptions here or on each of their subtopics?
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Midonik
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Re: Golias & Goliath Suits

Post by Midonik » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:56 pm

Perhaps sub
Support new AoS variant, Age of Galaxy,its sci-fi themed: http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=135
All help will be welcome.

Fielderan Crown's Great Hetman
http://www.androidutils.com/forum/viewt ... =66&t=4729

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