Lighting spell change

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Tankhead
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Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:15 pm

I find lighting spell really useless compared to fireball

Low damage spell that only affects units not so great so I thought what if we added a stun affect to it
Upon hit enemy units are stunned for 1 turn

I believe this is possible to do since their is a curse affect.
So I all is needed is to mix the 2 will a little modification
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makazuwr32
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:54 am

Lighting spell is not low damage. It deals same 10 damage as fireball.

Alas aftereffect is needed but stun is i think too powerful. Instead i would prefer to see slowing 1 aftereffect for 3 turns.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:50 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:54 am
Lighting spell is not low damage. It deals same 10 damage as fireball.

Alas aftereffect is needed but stun is i think too powerful. Instead i would prefer to see slowing 1 aftereffect for 3 turns.
A 1 turn stun too powerful?
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:57 am

Aoe 1 turn stun is too powerful, yes.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:08 am

Not understanding how 1 turn stun too powerful
I find slowing one too weak

Maybe slowing 2 or something
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:39 am

Stun is curse. And aoe curse is too powerful. Even for 1 turn. Especially because it will be able to hit otherwise immune units.
Get 3 elf wizards and you can perma stun 13 units.

As for slowing 1 it is stackable with slowing 3. And for elves even such small aoe slowing will result in huge advantage.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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Alexander82
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:49 pm

makazuwr32 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:39 am
Stun is curse. And aoe curse is too powerful. Even for 1 turn. Especially because it will be able to hit otherwise immune units.
Get 3 elf wizards and you can perma stun 13 units.

As for slowing 1 it is stackable with slowing 3. And for elves even such small aoe slowing will result in huge advantage.
Totally agree.

That won't be acceptable.
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Alexander82
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:00 pm

I agree with some status for lightning but what's traditionally associated with Electric damage is too strong in this game

It might, however, have one among different effects le like:

Extra damage on units that are on water tiles (aside wooden units)

Give a different kind of stun for a few turns (e.g. Units under this effect have a certain chance of failing an actions as if they have a failure)

Make extra damage on heavy armored units

Cause an attack reduction effect (a single instance allowed)

Reduce sight (useful only in maps with fog)

Make another tech called "chain lightning" that once researched increase the spell range and aoe size

Make another tech to allow lightning to be controlled better that make them hit only enemy targets (no friendly fire)
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:54 pm

I would prefer next:
Alexander82 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Make another tech called "chain lightning" that once researched increase the spell range and aoe size

Make another tech to allow lightning to be controlled better that make them hit only enemy targets (no friendly fire)
And also slowing 1.

But i think both techs must be availible only for elves. Other races must not have so good control over lighting.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:40 pm

I agree with the following...

• Make extra damage on heavy armored units

• Make another tech called "chain lightning" that once researched increase the spell range and aoe size

• Make another tech to allow lightning to be controlled better that make them hit only enemy targets (no friendly fire)

Maybe a single hinderance (but certainly not to the magnetude of a debuffs spell, else it will be over suggested)

I do not agree with racial specializations for magic. Techs Should be universal.
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Tankhead
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:13 pm

I agree to the ones that make somewhat logical sense

Extra damage on water ( for obvious reasons )

And the chain lighting tech ( I can see the user training the spell to become better at using it )

That different stun ( Cause its still a stun of some sort )

What I don't agree with is Lightning doing extra damage to heavy units. If your suggesting that cause of the metal they wear wouldn't it do the same amount without? ( getting struck by lighting )
Also this would mean fireballs would have to do extra damage to heavies also ( cause of the metal )

Lightning weapon reduce sight?
How does that happen?

And a tech that doesn't affect friendlies?
I never heard of a simple wizard able to control magic that good ( I can see this on a powerful mage tho )

This is my opinions btw
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by StormSaint373 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:27 pm

Ofc. The reason why metal would be more effective...

Metal, or at least most metals, are excellent conductors of electricity.

When a circuit is established, metal is a main receptor.

Someone in armor, unless protected, would be fried. Period.

Thus the thunderstorm spell would allow extra dmg vs armored units.

I think 2x or 3x normal dmg.

Not to mention, armored opponents usually are backed up with hp, so...
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Fri Feb 22, 2019 1:25 am

StormSaint373 wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:27 pm
Ofc. The reason why metal would be more effective...

Metal, or at least most metals, are excellent conductors of electricity.

When a circuit is established, metal is a main receptor.

Someone in armor, unless protected, would be fried. Period.

Thus the thunderstorm spell would allow extra dmg vs armored units.

I think 2x or 3x normal dmg.

Not to mention, armored opponents usually are backed up with hp, so...
Someone would be fried without armor tho
( you get the same results )
Sure it conducts electricity but Wouldn't it do the same amount to the flesh?
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makazuwr32
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:07 am

I don't like idea of more damage to armored targets.
Also i don't like idea of giving those techs for upgrade lighting spell to everyone who has it.

For example: scaledfolks have storm dragon suggested. How it can "research" chain lighting or better control it?

Orcs are also not that good casters to have so good control. Or you want to say that orcs are as good in magic as humans and elves?

And for now only these 3 races have lighting in one form or another. If humans will get it than they can have upgrades as well. Dwarves and undeads are also i think not so good in magic to have them if they will get lighting spell.
Ofc i am telling only about base races. Not about subs.

Stun... i don't know about different variant.
I would prefer slowing 1.
As for "reduce sight": lighting (not a weapon) is strikes from above units and blinds with sudden light them. As i can explain it.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Tankhead
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Tankhead » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:33 am

Seems all 3 of us has mix Ideas

Alex Or Dev what you think on the matter?
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:38 am

I meant those techs for spells, not breath (since it is a more physical form of effect).

I think that orcs should have the same techs too sonce the warlock was meant to be specialized in destruction magic.

The elven mage is an all round mage and it uses also nature magic and other kind of spells.

If I had to choose in terms of background I'd give these to warlock (it also makes more sense since orcs will shoot these when most of their melee units are in range).

Said that I'd like more to have more shared techs and I think this can be a good addition of magic techs for both races.

Also, since both races have a specific building for that, I would remove the lightning research from tcs and put that in these buildings only.

Also lightning tech should cost a bit more (right now it costs 3 and fireball is 8 )
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Alexander82
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:38 am

Btw the sight reduction was also some sort of stun and/or caused by the flash of light
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:05 am

Fireball research cost 6 turns.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:08 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:05 am
Fireball research cost 6 turns.
Ok, I see. So what about bringing lightning to a similar cost and put it only in a specific building?
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:10 am

If lighting will get its own on-hit effect tham depending on it research cost i think can be increased to 5-7 turns.

For example if slowing 1 is added than i think research cost for lighting must be 5 turns. Fireball is still better in terms of damage because of dodge and huge damage to building so in this case it must cost more.

Agree with putting it into specific building.
Last edited by makazuwr32 on Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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makazuwr32
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:22 am

And about on-hit effect — i would prefer slowing 1 still becuase
1. It is used already in lighting weapon effect.
2. Elves and orcs will get way to slow otherwise immune to magic units.
3. I just want to make more ways of applying any slowing.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Alexander82
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Re: Lighting spell change

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:50 pm

If you can get a single instance it is ok
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