spear thrower

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TheBluePhoenix
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spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:19 pm

This unit will help to kill fast approaching army of cavalry faster. many a times it happens that the opponent suddenly ambushes with cavalry in fog warfare. Suddenly many knights surround our zone. So i thought it would be better if a variant of the pikeman is made which throws his spears quite accurately at these speeding horses
Stats:
Cost 2
Health 11
Range 5
Attack power 5( 300% bonus on all cavalry units as they cannot duck a fast moving spear easily at high charging speeds. No bonus for other units as they can easily easily dodge the spear as they are much slower than knights)
Rest all stats same as pikeman
Accuracy: 50% hit chance for all units
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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Alexander82
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:26 pm

Isn't that some sort of skirmisher?
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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:46 pm

Yes but much stronger for a cavalry unit compared to the skirmisher
It is basically a fusion of skirmisher and pikeman
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:05 pm

Would that actually work? Wouldn't arrows work better?

The reason pikes are such effective anti-mounted weapons is because the user can plant the end of his pike to meet the charging horse while staying out of his opponent's weapon range.
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Josh

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Alexander82
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:21 pm

COOLguy wrote:Would that actually work? Wouldn't arrows work better?

The reason pikes are such effective anti-mounted weapons is because the user can plant the end of his pike to meet the charging horse while staying out of his opponent's weapon range.
Exactly
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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:32 pm

I didnt get you cool guy. Have you seen troy?? Kind of achilles kills a horseman from far away with a spear. I dont mean it to be so long ranged (achilles was a hero spearman is not) but equivalently effective in stopping an advancing horseman
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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Alexander82
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:46 pm

But it's mostly what a skirmisher who isn't achilles do aside from oneshotting the knight
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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:38 am

Thats what i said. He is a skirmisher pikeman fusion good against advqncing knights like skirmisher is to the archer.
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:44 am

TheBluePhoenix wrote:I didnt get you cool guy. Have you seen troy?? Kind of achilles kills a horseman from far away with a spear. I dont mean it to be so long ranged (achilles was a hero spearman is not) but equivalently effective in stopping an advancing horseman
Okay sorry, but: Achilles is myth. Even if based upon a historical figure, there is no way that you believe for example that he was invincible save for the back of his heel.

The drawing force of a war bow can be up to 110 lbs. There is no possible way that a man can achieve as much penetrating power by throwing a heavy spear.

Like I said above, the reason for a pikes effectiveness against cavalry is its range in comparison to a horseman's sword and its use of the horseman's momentum for penetrating power.

So I don't think that a throwing spear would be effective against mounted units.
Thanks!
Josh

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:53 am

Okay lets not get into much physics. The basic idea was to have a ranged unit who is more effective in dealing with cavalry. Maybe the skirmisher can have a bonus against them instead of a seperate unit??
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


Darkknight
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Darkknight » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:17 am

TheBluePhoenix wrote:Okay lets not get into much physics. The basic idea was to have a ranged unit who is more effective in dealing with cavalry. Maybe the skirmisher can have a bonus against them instead of a seperate unit??
This will make skirmisher too strong. It would unbalance the game. If we increase its cost it would loose its function as a cheap unit effective against archers.

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:38 am

Thats the main reason i wanted to create a seperate unit
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Alexander82
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:10 pm

some time ago i sugggested a tech called Spear Throwing that should have given the skirmisher a bonus against cavalry.
Daniel went against it saying that the unit is already pretty strong as it is, so i think that's settled.
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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:16 pm

TheBluePhoenix wrote:The basic idea was to have a ranged unit who is more effective in dealing with cavalry.
I don't think there should be such a unit. You will see in history that cavalry and mounted units usually carried the battlefield until the introduction of pike formations and other strong infantry tactics against cavalry.

Even now in the game you can defeat cavalry with ranged units if you're lucky and smart; and ranged units are a good way to weaken cavalry for other units (usually infantry) to destroy.
Thanks!
Josh

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:46 pm

Alexander82 wrote:some time ago i sugggested a tech called Spear Throwing that should have given the skirmisher a bonus against cavalry.
Daniel went against it saying that the unit is already pretty strong as it is, so i think that's settled.
I didnot know this.
But i still think that there should a unit like this. Nevertheless if dev says no then he must have had a good reason behind it
I have read that there were spear throwers at least in indian armies to down cavalry units(@ coolguy)
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:10 pm

Spear thrower killing cavalry: Yes I'm sure that a spear thrower could be able to kill a cavalry unit. But so can a guy with a rock. ;)

I don't think that we should have a spear thrower unit that is dedicated to downing cavalry as the physics are very much against it.
Thanks!
Josh

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Mon Sep 21, 2015 5:14 pm

It has been used in armies so i dont understand how physics opposes it
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:01 pm

So have pitchforks and lassos.

Would a spear thrower be more effective of an anti-cavalry unit than a pike or bow - not to mention a war bow? That is a rhetorical question; the answer is no. :)

A man with a knife can kill a horseman. Does that mean that we should make a knife wielding unit that specifically is for downing cavalry?
Thanks!
Josh

HokanPL
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Re: spear thrower

Post by HokanPL » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:19 pm

Spears are effective against infantry, too. Maybe:

1. 4 turns, not 2
2. Some more health and pierce armor, low armor.
3. Big damage, but with a 50% chance to hit (like catapult)

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TheBluePhoenix
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Re: spear thrower

Post by TheBluePhoenix » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:28 pm

I already suggested no. 3
Ok if cool guy agrees i am ready to apply no. 1,2 also
BEWARE!!!!The long lost empire of phoenicia is rising- The world is but just near the golden age,wherein men played and frolicked,without any worries at all


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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:09 pm

Yes, I'm okay with a spear thrower as long it is not an anti-cavalry one-shotter that doesn't make sense (outside of Hollywood) :)
Thanks!
Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: spear thrower

Post by makazuwr32 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:42 pm

Are they not javelin throwers?
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
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COOLguy
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Re: spear thrower

Post by COOLguy » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:58 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:42 pm
Are they not javelin throwers?
Idk, is there a throwing spear that is not a javelin? If not I will close this topic.
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Josh

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makazuwr32
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Re: spear thrower

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:58 am

Yes there were few variants but i think the difference is only in weight and sizes.
makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:54 am
Please when you ask to change something argument why do you want that change. ...
Put some numbers, compare to what other races have and so on. Some real info why it must be done.
© by Makazuwr32™.

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Gral.Sturnn
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Re: spear thrower

Post by Gral.Sturnn » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:29 am

And the point shape.
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