Bayonet musket

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L4cus
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Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 8:41 pm

Hi, i am new here. My dream is just see this at the game. This unit could have the mechanic of inmortals. Is produced like a ranged gunpowder unit and transforms into a meele unit. I don't know anything about programation (i speak spanish, maybe i am not writing well) but i'd love to see this unit in aos. Please help me to get this.
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L4cus
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:23 pm

20200131_172253.png
This is a line infantery, this is my idea about the sprite
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:31 pm

This unit could have very similar stats as the musket. His stats as ranged unit could be:
Cost: 3-4
Hp 18-20
Base attack power: 9-10
Range: 6
Armor: 1/0
Speed: 3
Sight: 7
Spell resistance: 0%
Conversion resistance: 20%
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:17 pm

The meele stats might be:
Cost: 3-4
Hp: 18-20
Base attack power: 7-8
Range: 1
Armor: 1-2/0
Speed: 3
Sight: 7
Spell resistance: 0%
Conversion resistance: 20%
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L4cus
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:17 pm

In addition, the bayonet musket might have an bonus against cavalry, because of it was the main objetive of having a bayonet. 20-30%
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:16 am

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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by makazuwr32 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:17 am

He is too modern unit for this game.

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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:45 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:17 am
He is too modern unit for this game.
Really? I am sorry
Then, let's delete this topic... :(
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by godOfKings » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:28 pm

Rather i thought all musket men used bayonets? I think it could b a researched spell in blacksmith that gives musketeer a low damage melee spell with high bonus against cavalry? Requires gunpowder tech to unlock musketeer first
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:55 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:28 pm
Rather i thought all musket men used bayonets? I think it could b a researched spell in blacksmith that gives musketeer a low damage melee spell with high bonus against cavalry? Requires gunpowder tech to unlock musketeer first
That tech was implemented at S XVI-XVII
Before that there were not bayonet
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:48 pm

L4cus wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:55 pm
godOfKings wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:28 pm
Rather i thought all musket men used bayonets? I think it could b a researched spell in blacksmith that gives musketeer a low damage melee spell with high bonus against cavalry? Requires gunpowder tech to unlock musketeer first
That tech was implemented at XVI-XVII century
Before that there were not bayonet
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by godOfKings » Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:51 pm

and that is y i suggest to make it researchable instead of immediate
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:21 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 4:51 pm
and that is y i suggest to make it researchable instead of immediate
What about an upgrade for the musket, getting this ability to transform to his bayonet mode. This sounds better to me. What about you?
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:10 am

There can b only one form of attack in game, either melee or ranged, its just a long blade there is no improvement in body armor or gun power so upgrading whole unit for a melee attack doesnt make sense, giving it a secondary anti cav pierce attack is obviously the right choice
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:14 am

godOfKings wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 1:10 am
There can b only one form of attack in game, either melee or ranged, its just a long blade there is no improvement in body armor or gun power so upgrading whole unit for a melee attack doesnt make sense, giving it a secondary anti cav pierce attack is obviously the right choice
Ok, i agree with you but there is a detail: the "primitive" bayonet was like a knife that put ok the canon of the musket, it was unable to use while meele. Somwtimes got cut, so did it slowly
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by makazuwr32 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:12 am

I only disagree to give for bayonet spell anti-cav bonuses. It was actually not so effective against cavalry.

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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:14 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:12 am
I only disagree to give for bayonet spell anti-cav bonuses. It was actually not so effective against cavalry.
The range of musket could be 2 to 6, then they would have to use his bayonet. It was made for selfdefense against cavalry, but you are right, they weren't effective enought, only worked on square formation, but that was implemmented at napoleonic wars.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:52 am

wat about first strike?
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:05 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:52 am
wat about first strike?
That is a good idea, bug ¿ a ranged unit wity first strike?
That's why i wanted it to be a new unit. Anyway, is a good idea. Let's see how to make it real.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by godOfKings » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:25 pm

Y not? It would still b quite low damage

1 use of bayonet is that musketeer have a low hit chance against cavalry so using bayonet will give guaranteed damage wat about 4 dmg with 100% bonus against cav that is reduced by armor? So deals same damage as ranged attack

Compare 8 dmg bayonet with 22 dmg spear, it is clear how less effective bayonet is compared to spear
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Sun Feb 02, 2020 5:04 pm

godOfKings wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:25 pm
Y not? It would still b quite low damage

1 use of bayonet is that musketeer have a low hit chance against cavalry so using bayonet will give guaranteed damage wat about 4 dmg with 100% bonus against cav that is reduced by armor? So deals same damage as ranged attack

Compare 8 dmg bayonet with 22 dmg spear, it is clear how less effective bayonet is compared to spear
But the counter attack is based on the tipe of damage the unit deals. Musketter is ranged, then it will be proyectile damgae. ¿How to do the counter attack deals meele damage on a range unit?
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:13 am

First strike doesn't care about range, it'd be an unnecessary if (condition) {} in Java to make it that way. Counter only checks if a unit is adjacent to it.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by makazuwr32 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:24 am

I can't still see bayonet as weapon against cavalry. Against infantry yes.

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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:00 am

makazuwr32 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:24 am
I can't still see bayonet as weapon against cavalry. Against infantry yes.
I have already talked avout that, it only worked in square formation, but it's at napoleonic wars.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Mon Feb 03, 2020 1:04 am

This is my new idea: bayonet would be an ability researched at blacksmith (could be another building) with no bonus (tactics against cavalry are too more later)
Range: 1
Power 8-10?
The ability will not have cold down.
I am not sure about first strike
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:37 am

The only way I can think of to make melee attack with counter and damage bonuses is to make his ranged attack be an ability.
On the topic of bonuses themselves - definitely not high like spear, but something like +50%.
+50% is almost exactly balancing factor, which removes mounted advantage (all mounted units have hp beyond normal scope).

But, still - I don't like adding units beyond 16th century.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:57 am

Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:37 am
The only way I can think of to make melee attack with counter and damage bonuses is to make his ranged attack be an ability.
On the topic of bonuses themselves - definitely not high like spear, but something like +50%.
+50% is almost exactly balancing factor, which removes mounted advantage (all mounted units have hp beyond normal scope).

But, still - I don't like adding units beyond 16th century.
I understand. We cam forget this topic if you think is not right. Are you the moderator?
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by SirPat » Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:25 am

;) hey remember musketeers have swords ;)
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by Endru1241 » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:29 pm

L4cus wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:57 am
Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:37 am
The only way I can think of to make melee attack with counter and damage bonuses is to make his ranged attack be an ability.
On the topic of bonuses themselves - definitely not high like spear, but something like +50%.
+50% is almost exactly balancing factor, which removes mounted advantage (all mounted units have hp beyond normal scope).

But, still - I don't like adding units beyond 16th century.
I understand. We cam forget this topic if you think is not right. Are you the moderator?
Design Leader for AoS - the last filter before dev.

And maybe not forget completely - it's just much lower priority.
When we go into 17th century, I'd like to have some content to add all at once.
To be honest, I am already a little conflicted with existing tanageshima, musketeer and galleon going along with hoplites, roman legionaries, slingers.
SirPat wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:25 am
;) hey remember musketeers have swords ;)
And I am not entirely content with them.
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Re: Bayonet musket

Post by L4cus » Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:57 pm

Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 3:29 pm
L4cus wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 7:57 am
Endru1241 wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:37 am
The only way I can think of to make melee attack with counter and damage bonuses is to make his ranged attack be an ability.
On the topic of bonuses themselves - definitely not high like spear, but something like +50%.
+50% is almost exactly balancing factor, which removes mounted advantage (all mounted units have hp beyond normal scope).

But, still - I don't like adding units beyond 16th century.
I understand. We cam forget this topic if you think is not right. Are you the moderator?
Design Leader for AoS - the last filter before dev.

And maybe not forget completely - it's just much lower priority.
When we go into 17th century, I'd like to have some content to add all at once.
To be honest, I am already a little conflicted with existing tanageshima, musketeer and galleon going along with hoplites, roman legionaries, slingers.
SirPat wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:25 am
;) hey remember musketeers have swords ;)
And I am not entirely content with them.
Oh, i see. A entire pack for modern age units is good idea. Them, you should add the dragon ( mounted musket), granadiers ( an elite musket infantry with granadiers), musket skirmisher( a long range musket unit with low defense stats). These are some ideas, i understand y u dont like to see ilogical battles in the game. But remember it is a game.
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