Illusionist

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Sunrise Samurai
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Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:20 pm

Cost 5
Hp 11
Power 3
Speed 3
Spell resistance 70%
Spells: conceal (cooldown 3, target unit has stealth. Duration 5, cancelled upon movement or attacking, or if revealed.) Weave Illusion (cooldown 3, makes an illusion in target space within 3 range)

Illusion stats
Hp 1
Vanishing 6
Power 0
Speed variable, base 3
Spells: illusory copy (takes on the appearance and speed of target allied unit. Cannot attack or cast spells as the copy, but appears to opponents as that unit in every way. Still has vanishing, but opponent can't see it. Revealed to be an illusion if in view of a unit that reveals stealth, though not by being adjacent to enemies.)

Obviously, the only purpose is to grossly misrepresent the size, shape, and/or location of your forces. An illusory catapult might draw some attention, while​ illusions of cavalry will cause your enemy to make a bunch of spearmen... which your real army can mow down with ease.
Last edited by Sunrise Samurai on Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Alexander82
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:29 pm

Great idea

Also the conceal spell is pretty powerful if cast on a strong unit
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:34 pm

Yeah, until Catapults aren't allowed to get transport by wagons then they can really do some damage if you manage to sneak them behind. :lol:
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:57 pm

Yeah, that must be roworked ;)
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:03 pm

Ok, might be overpowered if wagons or catapults could be stealthed. The point is more to hide a few powerful, tactically useful troops while luring your opponent into a tactical blunder with illusions of either threatening units that need the right troops to counter (like cavalry) or else juicy targets (say, a mage, for example) that would draw enemy fite away from the real troops. This being said, the illusions don't have vanishing, since they can't attack.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:06 pm

A good example is copying​ a mage, then hiding the real one nearby. This means the enemy will kill the fake, then eat a fireball when they think they're safe.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:21 pm

What about conceal works only until the concealed unit don't move? Otherwise that might be exploited too much.

The illusion thing is good imho
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:27 pm

Hey that would work. Doesn't apply to buildings, but with that, I just might agree with hiding a wagon even. I should point out, if it wasn't clear, that illusion die in one hit, no matter how healthy they appear.

I was considering giving the illusion spell to my nymph idea, since it seems like something a nymph could pull off. What do you think?
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:21 am

Yes illusions are ok.

About illusions to nymph I'm not sure. I don't think would fit much the unit. We should give them mostly effects that reduce enemy units stats (like lowering armor or eliminating dodge chance).
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:11 am

I wasn't too sure about that one myself. I do think I'll be posting a suggestion to put that spell into elves somewhere later, but for now I'm content to see humans get it first.

Anyway, if conceal works only as long as a unit stays still, it could do wonders turning wagons into ambush holes, since they would hold invisibility while troops enter and exit them, presumably hidden by fog of war, else rushing from one concealed wagon to another. 5 wagons full of troops hidden could turn out an effective ambush, especially when illusions lead enemies to the area.

I must admit, the illusionist is only really good against humans. The ai is too dumb already, so it needs to remain able to see stealth. And if we had it count illusions toward deciding what units it made.....let's just say it doesn't need any help making bad decisions.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:19 pm

Topic seems forgotten. Does it seem ready to vote on? I'd really like to see how such shenanigans can change gameplay.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:45 am

You will need the unit's image first to be accepted.

We might need catapults to be rebalanced as well..
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:21 am

The votes are going to become one in 2 weeks so I would concentrate, at least for some time, on something easy to code. This unit is nice but it would require some coding so, for humans, i'd mostly concentrate on a upgrade pack.

We can continue discussing it and working on a image and later on we might plan its implementation.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:44 am

Puss_in_Boots wrote:You will need the unit's image first to be accepted.

We might need catapults to be rebalanced as well..
Image I can't do much about. The catapult problem was fixed when we decided the stealth effect fails upon movement, and probably upon attacking as well.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by LordOfAles » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:01 pm

Wonderful unit, i agree the invisible units should be revealed only when moving or attacking!

I can consider making an image, how do you imagine it?
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:20 pm

Well, my idea was more of the charlatan/magician look than a wizened mage.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by DoomCarrot » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:07 am

I have some problems with this:

1. perma-stealth until revealed is very OP. Like, really wildly super OP. I think 3-4 turns should be the max effectiveness of it.

2. How would an illusioned unit work? Could it "block" opponent's paths? That doesn't really make much sense if it is an illusion... And that is also pretty powerful. Just make a bunch of illusion units to block opponent's path and confuse them, and use your real archers to shoot their stealth detector.

I just think this might be really OP, and needs to be toned down a bit to be balanced.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 am

Doom has got a point
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:23 am

It's hard to say that the stealth is op, when even moving removes it. You have to stand still and don't shoot, or it disappears. You literally have to lure your opponent to the ambush. Though I really should put that in the original post. Maybe give it duration 5, to force periodic renewal anyway​.

Illusions.....there you have a good point. I'd say there needs to be a vanishing counter on them, or you have too many all too easily. Though each race has area damage effects, which will abolish many illusions at once. Would vanishing 3 work​?

Editing these into original post.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:52 am

Does the illusion skill have a cooldown? Combining cooldown and vanishing might work.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:21 am

They have the cooldown of 5 in the first post.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:33 am

I couldn't find any cooldown
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:11 am

I didn't put a cooldown, but I can. Should I?
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:35 am

I must've misread the duration timing then?
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:38 am

Alexander82 wrote:Does the illusion skill have a cooldown? Combining cooldown and vanishing might work.
Oh wait! I made it up to meet this demand... duh! :lol:
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:31 am

Considering what doom spawning illusions would be better than building walls. To avoid that a mix of cooldown and vanishing can still make them useful without flooding a map.

Also i was thinking that many player would eveb resign if they see you have ten times their units xD
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:37 am

Many generals in real life have surrendered to false campfires and empty tents throughout history. Even without magic, that trick has worked. I don't see why this would be much different lol.

Adding cooldown 2, vanishing 6 on illusions, so that each illusionist can only support 3. No worse than wolves at that point, and easier to kill. Or should I give cooldown 3, vanishing 6 to make it 2 illusions instead?
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Alexander82 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:14 pm

1) cause we already have too many resigning players

2) I think that 2 for every illusionist is ok
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Sunrise Samurai » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:09 pm

Edited.
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Re: Illusionist

Post by Savra » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:28 am

Bumped.

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