Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Things that did not fit to the other parts
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Midonik
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Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Midonik » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:46 pm

I think that current build rates (if they haven't changed) allow spamming the fixed artillery way too much. Additionally only things that can destroy them successfully are bomber planes, flamethrowers and artillery. The game kinda turns into a fixed artillery spam and I don't think that's cool.
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Re: Concrete artillery more expensive

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:41 pm

ok!

i plan to increase concrete AA damage, and yes we can increase some build rates too.

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Re: Concrete artillery more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Midonik » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:54 pm

For 80hp fixed artillery in AoG I use 0.6 bonus mending when constructing and 1 bonus mending, and the engineers have mend rate 10. I propose similar here, tho you can change them as you see right.
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Re: Concrete artillery more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:57 pm

i changed these
1. added 1 extra action (total 2)
2. modified mend bonus on constructiong from 4 to 3

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Re: Concrete artillery more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:26 am

i still feel that engineers are making only fixed artillery if all factory buildings are built up already. (at least i use them to do that)

any other suggestion than increasing the build time of artilleries?
- eg, i dont see walls/trenches used in games, are they weak or wrong?
- should we make some "army" units that can be built by engineers (like catapult and ships in AOS/AOF)? - eg. some light tanks?
- maybe an option to turn engineers to regular infantry?

Midonik
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Midonik » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:04 pm

2 and 3 don't seem like a good idea.
About the first.... Why do we even have walls? I guess they can be useful for some maps (maybe) but we a war unit it that period... They don't seem to useful.
Do we even have trenches in game? I didn't actually play it for a while. Trenches would be preferable alternative. Same as bunkers, that we have. I think bunkers are underused because they can't attack on their own, while both bunkers and concrete artillery can store units. So, I have two suggestions:
1) Make the concrete artillery not able to store units (it should let units thru) - I don't think there is a place for that. At very least, make unit inside not able to attack.
2) Make bunker cheaper - I don't think that will be needed if we implement the 1). It could also interfere with the balance of sandbox bunkers. So I recommend the first suggestion.
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:27 pm

Make the concrete artillery not able to store units: it already can only hold infantry, that is good imho, will not be less used if nothing can go in - also AI could get into trouble and stuck in its own TC-s because of it.

bunker less costy: ok, i made it constr.bonus=1.8 instead of old 1.2

trenches: we have them, yes

concrete artillery cost: i have reduced constr.bonus to 2 (from 3 - the original was 4 few weeks ago)

but i still feel we need something else to build (eg i played japan recently - so i get all missing things for them - and i detected it has lack of some things - eg Mega structure to build - that is why i spam those artilleries as nothing else i can build.)

so we need some more things to build imho.

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Midonik » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:32 pm

Are bunkers able to store anything else than the infantry and artillery? And well, if you can use infantry from it it still does give them some bonus defensive capacity, combined with its own attack I don't see a reason to build bunkers over concrete artillery, besides cost. I think it would be more diverse if we did go with the first version. Also I said they could let the units to go thru (like gates), so second argument seems invaild.
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:36 pm

ok, i still not feel any difference, i would still build my one hundred artillery after i am ready with all buildings to build :)

so we need something else.

interesting that in AOF / AOS i never face anyone build too many towers - as in most games you dont have time to build all buildings (factory+catles), also u have there the catapult andship building possibility.

so i feel some mega buildings could solve the problem apart from these i did above.
or u have any other idea in pocket? (apart from restricting infantry from artilleries)
or anyone else have?

thanks!

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:38 pm

new idea:
- building artillery guns on field? (the movable ones)
- or railways? would be cool

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Midonik » Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:59 pm

The second one came to my mind but it seems completely unrealistic.
The problem with railways is how would they work. I don't think currently we can represent them in game.

Well trenches - buildable buildings with, like, 2 carry capacity (only infantry and artillery), that would give + 4/4 armor or something as an 0 range aura (like the eleven outposts in AoF do with range), so it effects only unit in it, and also if there are unit in it, you deal damage to them, but it they are empty, you can capture them - like tcs or ruined fortresses in AoF, would be a good alternative I think. I'm not sure if they are in game and of they work as described, but if not then we should start a new topic for that I guess.
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:49 pm

We should allow engineers to build jeeps/ rocket laucnh pads, so we don't have to waste 3 production turns in getting them on the field.
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:30 am

what is a rocket launch pad? a new structure?

also idea!

i might build that many engineers because i can not move them easily, and on every move i build "something".

what if i make them to be able to turn to "van" form so i can easily move them around he map and transform back to engineer form - and instead of training engineers everywhere i would u se the original few - thus i will only build what is needed. - i think i got a good idea now - what do u think? :)

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:30 am

also i gave attack to
sandbag bunkers (1 shot of machineguns)
bunker (2 shot of machineguns)
bunker complex (3 shot of machineguns)

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:56 am

Transport trucks already do fast transportation for engineers.
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:07 pm

ok but i feel i would not build that much engineer and also not so much defense everywhere - if i could MORE EASiLY transport them.

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Puss_in_Boots » Fri Nov 01, 2019 1:23 am

It's a fine idea, but transport trucks can already do that, and I use them with anti air to beat plane spammers.
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Jasondunkel
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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Jasondunkel » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:50 pm

How about if you can only build a certain number of solid artillery, or from number x, the production costs are increased.

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Re: Concrete artillery SPAM - make it more more expensive IMPLEMENTED

Post by Stratego (dev) » Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:04 pm

neither is easy to make , we need some other ways.

is it still a problem?

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